Is the quality of Brooks saddles going down the pan?

BenderRodriguez

I currently have 3 Brooks saddles. The first one I bought, about 5 years ago, was a black 'Pro'. This started off a hard as a piece of wood, but after applying 'Proofide' and getting some miles in it moulded nicely to my shape and has needed hardly any re-tensioning. This is my favourite ever saddle and is currently fitted to my track bike.

I followed this 'Pro' up with a B17 'Special' for my touring bike, which again is fine. However, I bought another Brooks 'Pro' about 18 months ago and it seems to be nowhere near the quality of the first 'Pro' which I bought.

To start with the surface finishing was poor, having a slightly 'wrinkled' surface that hardly seems to be an integral part of the leather at all, looking almost like an applied plastic coating. The leather is also thinner, at a shade over 4mm as compared to 5mm for my original 'Pro'. The nose tension bolt has bent like a banana and worst of all the saddle seems to be incapable of holding tension, having become very 'soft', despite being treated in exactly the same way as my other Brooks saddles. I am thinking that this might be due to the leather being thinner and of a lower quality than my original 'Pro'.

Has anyone else noticed such a deterioration in quality? I had thought that all 'Pro' saddles used a thicker leather than their standard models, but going by my example this may no longer be the case.

A long shot I know, but has anyone gone back to a plastic saddle after using a Brooks pro and has found a model that is comparable in width and shape to the Brooks Pro? I am certainly reluctant to get another Brooks! How about those Gilles Berthoud saddles? What is their quality like and is there a model comparable to the Brooks 'Pro' in terms of width and shape? (Those I have seen all seem to be narrower.)

MisterMuncher

I've heard that Spa Cycles own-make Brooks-alikes are very well made, cheaper and use thicker leather than their Brooks equivalent.

BenderRodriguez

MisterMuncher wrote:

I've heard that Spa Cycles own-make Brooks-alikes are very well made, cheaper and use thicker leather than their Brooks equivalent.

Mmm Spa Cycles...

The last time I tried to put in an order with them all went swimmingly until I asked how much it was to post to France. The guy on the phone said as he would have to go to the post office to send my order, and he couldn't really be arsed, he didn't want to take my order! (The value was well over £100.) I wonder how they send items out to UK addresses? Trained homing pigeons perhaps?

borisface

I can recommend Gilles Berthoud saddles. They are a bit pricey and I must admit that one of mine got completely soaked during a very wet ride without mudguards and has gone a bit banana-shaped. I emailled them and within 10 mins I had a reply asking me to return it to them and they would repair it FOC. They're in France too!

arthur_scrimshaw

Yes the GB saddles look great, love the fixings. I've got a pair of their stainless mudguards to fit together with a leather mudflap.

borisface

Be interested to know how you get on with the mudguards as will need some soon.

arthur_scrimshaw

It's been a saga so far, think I'm about sorted but haven't fitted them yet. The first company I ordered them from didn't understand the fixings and sent me all sorts of stuff, far to many of some and some were completely missing. Because there are no fitting instructions for the guards I can see why they got it wrong. I used this US website to work out what I needed.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/berthoudinst.asp

SJS cycles sorted me out in the end. Well worth looking on their website and pm me if you get stuck as to what you need.

borisface

Oh dear. I know you've got to do some drilling with the GBs which does put me off a bit as I can easily imagine scratching them or, more likely, getting the hole in the wrong place. I'm quite tempted by the Portland Design Works offer as my frame has a reasonably close close clearance under the brake bridges and I'm going to be using 28s this winter. I've tried a few different guards in the past on this and other bikes (from the utterly crap cruds to giant to SKS) but have never found anything quite as hardwearing and stable as the old ESGE mudguards.

arthur_scrimshaw

Yes there is some drilling, my plan is to make up a wooden block which will go in a vice and mirror the internal shape of the guard. Like any diy it's measure twice cut once
The other thing is that the guards are very wide, about 40mm so may be a tight fit on bikes with limited clearances. I looked at the PDW guards, I like their stuff, I've a couple of their rear lights. I really wanted shiny as most of my bikes bits are polished alloy and the PDW guards are grey?

Moonbiker

How about the Selle Monte Grappa ones?

keef66

Back on topic, I bought a Brooks B17 special maybe 4 years ago, splendid quality and superbly comfy. Now resides on the winter / wet weather bike. Wanted something a bit racier for the summer bike but couldn't justify the eye-watering prices for the Brooks, so decided to try one of the Spa Cycles Chinese (presumably) jobbies.

Went for the Aire. Quite impressed so far. Very thick leather so I don't think there's any danger of it sagging any time soon. More to the point, only £45.

Could you get a UK based chum to buy from Spa and then send on to you in France?

rolf_f

Taa for the heads up. I was mulling over a Professional in honey with copper rails from xxCycling (ironically, a French shop) on the basis of about £90 delivered and actual availability - but this thread made me decide to do another search on Ebay for older ones. Instead of searching for 'Brooks Professional' I tried 'Brooks Saddle' and an apparently unused, older honey pro with copper rails turns up with a BIN and Best offer. £60 sorted it. Definitely not the current version. Very similar to the one that was on the Raleigh originally but split across the nose.

BenderRodriguez

Thanks for the suggestions. I think that I will go for a Berthoud Aspin. Another bonus with this saddle is that it seems to have slightly longer adjustment rails than the Brooks and also has the option to fit a saddle bag much more easily. I found that the clip for my Ortlieb seat pack wouldn't fit on to the Brooks at all and I couldn't even stuff anything under the saddle as the edge of the cantle plate was like a razor, with a very sharp burr where it had been stamped out and left unfinished.

Looking around, plenty of others seem to have found more recent Brooks saddles to be of a much lower quality than in the past, what with sagging leather, breaking metal work and so forth, with many people only seeing a year or two out of a product that is marketed as being something you keep pretty much for life!

By the way, I ordered a new nose bolt for my 'Pro', even though the new one will doubtlessly be made of the same sort of low-grade steel as the original. This cost almost a tenner direct from Brooks :shock: (including postage) and I have been told that it will take 2 to 3 weeks for it to arrive. Hardly good service!

From what I have read, Brooks are so busy shipping container loads of their products to places such as the US that maintaining quality now has a lower priority than maximising their sales and profits. A pity really...

arthur_scrimshaw

I'm not impressed with Brooks customer service either. I bought a C17 Cambium a while back, they said on the website (in March) they would be offering matching bar tape but nothing showing so far. I emailed them asking about this a few weeks ago and have had no response.

arthur_scrimshaw

They are owned by Fi'zi:k now?

BenderRodriguez

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

They are owned by Fi'zi:k now?

No, Selle Italia, but as far as I know they operate pretty independently.

Quality issues aside, it does amaze me how companies like Brooks seem to overlook some really obvious issues in their designs. For example, unlike the Swallow model, the 'Pro' has no saddle bag loops, which might not be such an issue if they used a frame that was the same shape as most other 'racing' saddles on the market, as this would allow all those nice seat packs with clip-on fitting to be used. However, the frame is the same shape as with the B17, so just about nothing fits unless it relies on straps or velcro. The adapter kit for fitting an Ortlieb seat pack to a Brooks saddle is a right lash up!

Perhaps a 'Pro' with their 'Select' quality leather top would be a solution to the 'sagging leather' issue, but they don't make one!

borisface

I can confirm that the smallest ortleib saddle pack fits easily on the Berthoud saddle rails as that's what I use. I think Planet X are about the cheapest at the mo'. Good luck with it.

giant_man

Owned by Selle Italia? Really? I must have missed the announcement.

BenderRodriguez

giant man wrote:

Owned by Selle Italia? Really? I must have missed the announcement.

OK, Selle Royal. (Who are also Italian.)

(They bought out Brooks in 2003, so any recent decline in quality can't really be put down to that!)

My payment for my replacement Brooks tension bolt was processed by sella.it, which is probably why I got Selle Italia into my head!