London’s new Dutch-style east-west route

notsoblue

http://cycle.travel/city/london/news/re ... west_route

Looks interesting, though I wish they'd gone with a more direct route through Hyde Park. This'll go some way to improving the road for less assertive riders. I hope this catches on.

t4tomo

notsoblue wrote:

Looks interesting, though I wish they'd gone with a more direct route through Hyde Park.

.... the direct route would take you through the serpentine though so maybe their route isn't so bad

notsoblue

t4tomo wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Looks interesting, though I wish they'd gone with a more direct route through Hyde Park.

.... the direct route would take you through the serpentine though so maybe their route isn't so bad

Well, instead it takes you along the congested road route. The north/south shared path on the eastern side parallel with Park Lane would be more direct and there are already loads of cyclists that use that one. During the evenings it can be pretty hairy with cyclists using the same space as pedestrians (mostly tourists).

tgotb

I hope the bit along the Emankment is either wide enough to allow reasonable speed and overtaking, or that bikes continue to be permitted (and tolerated!) on the road. I don't particularly mind if I can no longer do 25-30 mph along that section of road, but I don't want to be perpetually stuck at 10mph behind bunches of tourists/chatting girls/mobile phone users...

anonymousblackfg

How on earth they just can't allow use of Serpentine Road is beyond me.



I can only assume some NIMBY sh*t from the queen and royal parks and Boris didn't have the backbone to argue with someone else from the upper classes.

keyser__soze

anonymousblackfg wrote:

How on earth they just can't allow use of Serpentine Road is beyond me.

I can only assume some NIMBY sh*t from the queen and royal parks

Bingo

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/royal-parks-put-stick-in-the-spokes-of-new-boris-cycle-link-8878624.html wrote:

In a letter to the Mayor’s cycling czar Andrew Gilligan, Royal Parks deputy chief executive Colin Buttery says there is an “absolute preference” for the route to follow the existing road network in Hyde Park.

He writes: “This means that West Carriage Drive and South Carriage Drive should be used as the option to be investigated to take cyclists from the Bayswater Road to Hyde Park Corner.

“The existing cycling routes along Serpentine Road and the Broad Walk [in Kensington Gardens] are not suitable for larger volumes (in the same way that it would not be appropriate to encourage more cyclists to use Rotten Row).”

itboffin

Clarkson would have a field day with that proposal

sketchley

I'll suspend my full judgement until I see in the flesh. But I'm expecting bit of it to end up as a compromise that sounded reasonable in a meeting room with a flip chart and some PowerPoint but will be utterly baffling on a bike. That's and it'll be full of slow people on Boris bikes.

timothyw

Keyser__Soze wrote:

anonymousblackfg wrote:

How on earth they just can't allow use of Serpentine Road is beyond me.

I can only assume some NIMBY sh*t from the queen and royal parks

Bingo

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/royal-parks-put-stick-in-the-spokes-of-new-boris-cycle-link-8878624.html wrote:

In a letter to the Mayor’s cycling czar Andrew Gilligan, Royal Parks deputy chief executive Colin Buttery says there is an “absolute preference” for the route to follow the existing road network in Hyde Park.

He writes: “This means that West Carriage Drive and South Carriage Drive should be used as the option to be investigated to take cyclists from the Bayswater Road to Hyde Park Corner.

“The existing cycling routes along Serpentine Road and the Broad Walk [in Kensington Gardens] are not suitable for larger volumes (in the same way that it would not be appropriate to encourage more cyclists to use Rotten Row).”

Presumably at least part of the reasoning is to do with Serpentine road (and Hyde Park) being closed between midnight and 5am, whereas the other road is available 24 hours.

It hardly seems like much of an issue one way or another given that Serpentine road and North Carriage Drive will still be available for cycling by canny riders.

rjsterry

Got a booklet delivered to the office this morning about a similar segregated route from E&C to King's X. The route looks pretty direct, and there's a nice visualisation of Blackfriars Road showing a wide fully segregated route. What I'm not clear on, is how you apply that to the much narrower Farringdon Road. Taking a full lane each way for bikes doesn't seem realistic.

The Rookie

Owt is better than nowt.....looks like a step or two in the right direction, don't complain, you at least have something!

oneiroi

rjsterry wrote:

Got a booklet delivered to the office this morning about a similar segregated route from E&C to King's X. The route looks pretty direct, and there's a nice visualisation of Blackfriars Road showing a wide fully segregated route. What I'm not clear on, is how you apply that to the much narrower Farringdon Road. Taking a full lane each way for bikes doesn't seem realistic.

Remove one of the bus lanes. The only pinch point then will be between Topham Street and Roseberry Avenue...narrow the pavement?

iPete

Oh no, for the greater good and all that but are the days of SCR down Embankment numbered?

If CS9 wasn't being held up by Kensington and Chelsea council being upset by blue paint, this does mean I could get to work (nearly 20 miles) on super highways.

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/loc ... le-6098520

surrey_commuter

I love that fact that it is going to link with CS3 at Tower Bridge. I ride in 20 miles and those couple of miles are by far the most hairy

iPete

iPete wrote:

Oh no, for the greater good and all that but are the days of SCR down Embankment numbered?

If CS9 wasn't being held up by Kensington and Chelsea council being upset by blue paint, this does mean I could get to work (nearly 20 miles) on super highways.

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/loc ... le-6098520

I should add, this in no way interests me. It's going to be a horrible convergence of Surrey club riders, hardcore commuters and the 'dutch' riders, it better be wide.

<mumbles>for the greater good</mumble>

tgotb

The Rookie wrote:

Owt is better than nowt.....

Maybe, maybe not. I definitely wouldn't take it as a given...

alan_sherman

I was thinking about this this morning as North Carriageway Drive is shut yet again. I suspect the route chosen allows full use of the 'events' space and associated closing of NCD to allow building / supplying / removing the stuff. For example Winter Wonderland would impact the direct route, Hyde Park music events impact the Park Lane route. When NCD is shut you can still use the (shared use) pavement.

Not the most direct or convenient route then, but the most commercial. Doesn't affect my SW to NW route apart from routing more people onto the route I already use

anonymousblackfg

remember when they have Winter wonderland or music events they tell cyclists to dismount on the Park Lane cycle path, so no different. It seems like the Royal Parks wanting to keep their cash cows (perhaps i'm pro as it avoids me thowing more money at those inbred royals) or Colin Buttery just being a monumental Douche.

rjsterry

TGOTB wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

Owt is better than nowt.....

Maybe, maybe not. I definitely wouldn't take it as a given...

Quite. TfL have shown they are quite capable of making things worse rather than better.

Anyway, my point wasn't a moan, more of an observation that it's very easy to draw a blue line on a map and bung together a quick photomontage, and much harder to implement good infrastructure where it is really needed at pinch points.

surrey_commuter

and this is going to feed into CS3 at Tower Bridge?????

tgotb

I can only comment on the Embankment section, but that's somewhere that I think a blue CS-style route would work just fine (as it does along Millbank etc), especially if TFL acknowledge that the rush hour is in full flow at 7pm and don't apply stupid time restrictions. The real problems with that part of the Embankment at the moment, are the very intermittent bike lane, parked cars and coaches, and abrupt width reductions at pedestrian crossings. If they dedicated a section of the road to bikes properly, there would be no need to separate it from the rest of the road.

j_mcd

Totally agree with that.

Just make one of the two lanes a blue lane and job done. Probably a hell of a lot cheaper.

If they could just extend it up The Highway as well...

drlodge

J_MCD wrote:

Just make one of the two lanes a blue lane and job done. Probably a hell of a lot cheaper.

What I was thinking, a reasonably wide blue lane works just fine.

I should add, this in no way interests me. It's going to be a horrible convergence of Surrey club riders, hardcore commuters and the 'dutch' riders, it better be wide.

I agree - seems to be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, at least for part of the route along the embankment where a blue lane would be just as good, if not better.

surrey_commuter

I picture this as a giant funnel speeding people onto CS3.... the doped up residents of Cable St/Royal Mint will be even more perplexed than usual and likley to celebrate by breaking more glass and pulling more wheelies on Boris Bikes

tgotb

I really don't understand why so many people are fixated on Dutch-style cycling infrastructure for London; we need something designed for London, not Amsterdam...

iPete

Could someone tell me what the actual f*** is going on here?



All that nonsense to achieve the same thing as removing two car lanes from either side and painting them blue (like Millbank/ CS8), done!

elbowloh

TGOTB wrote:

I really don't understand why so many people are fixated on Dutch-style cycling infrastructure for London; we need something designed for London, not Amsterdam...

I'm with you on this.

It will just encourage more Dutch people to move here......

rjsterry

iPete wrote:

Could someone tell me what the actual f*** is going on here?



All that nonsense to achieve the same thing as removing two car lanes from either side and painting them blue (like Millbank/ CS8), done!

Good. Grief.

Why on earth are they trying to apply a set of "rules" designed for single carriageway roads, to the of two dual carriageways with slip roads? Any road layout that needs that many arrows and lines painted all over it has failed before it has even been built.

tgotb

rjsterry wrote:

iPete wrote:

Could someone tell me what the actual f*** is going on here?



All that nonsense to achieve the same thing as removing two car lanes from either side and painting them blue (like Millbank/ CS8), done!

Good. Grief.

Why on earth are they trying to apply a set of "rules" designed for single carriageway roads, to the of two dual carriageways with slip roads? Any road layout that needs that many arrows and lines painted all over it has failed before it has even been built.

:shock:
It has clearly been designed by a committee (I use the word "design" in its loosest sense...)

surrey_commuter

On the right hand side of the pic the guy in white shirt is in a lane to go straight on.... where after 10 foot he will have a head on collision with another cyclist

dhope

Surrey Commuter wrote:

On the right hand side of the pic the guy in white shirt is in a lane to go straight on.... where after 10 foot he will have a head on collision with another cyclist

I'm not sure how they'll manage to engineer shadows being cast in a different direction when you're on the road vs the pavement on the right.