Danger Cars?

Kieran_Burns

PerformingMonkey wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

I'm not racist but...

I deeply value the opinion of anyone who starts a sentence with this.

Except it's indicative of people's attitude towards race. "don't want to offend you or anything, but..." tail between the legs...

Having very good friends living in Rotherham (hell, my best mate stood for Parliament several times for Rotherham Central) and seeing for myself the Police attitude... that "I'm not racist, but..." is less "I AM racist, but..." and more "I don't wish to rock the boat, but..."

Sorry.... rant over.

PerformingMonkey

Kieran_Burns wrote:

PerformingMonkey wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

I'm not racist but...

I deeply value the opinion of anyone who starts a sentence with this.

Except it's indicative of people's attitude towards race. "don't want to offend you or anything, but..." tail between the legs...

Having very good friends living in Rotherham (hell, my best mate stood for Parliament several times for Rotherham Central) and seeing for myself the Police attitude... that "I'm not racist, but..." is less "I AM racist, but..." and more "I don't wish to rock the boat, but..."

Sorry.... rant over.

Maybe I'm just too happy clappy? I just don't understand what difference the race or gender of the drivers has to do with anything in this thread, we're all the same. Maybe Tangled Metal could start a new thread "Danger Drivers". Here's a couple of phrases to get you started:

-"Drive like they're still in Mumbai"
-"She's too busy worrying about her make up"

Bonus Jim Davidson points if you can slip in the terms "coming over here..." or "what was she doing outside of the kitchen".

Rant over...

monkimark

Anything with a Halfords performance kit (ie some sticky sheets of plastic to tint the windows and a 12" wide exhaust. Tribal stickers up the side panels for a tw@ bonus multiplier.

Runtothehills

PerformingMonkey wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Except it's indicative of people's attitude towards race. "don't want to offend you or anything, but..." tail between the legs...

Having very good friends living in Rotherham (hell, my best mate stood for Parliament several times for Rotherham Central) and seeing for myself the Police attitude... that "I'm not racist, but..." is less "I AM racist, but..." and more "I don't wish to rock the boat, but..."

Sorry.... rant over.

Maybe I'm just too happy clappy? I just don't understand what difference the race or gender of the drivers has to do with anything in this thread, we're all the same. Maybe Tangled Metal could start a new thread "Danger Drivers". Here's a couple of phrases to get you started:

-"Drive like they're still in Mumbai"
-"She's too busy worrying about her make up"

Bonus Jim Davidson points if you can slip in the terms "coming over here..." or "what was she doing outside of the kitchen".

Rant over...

Can see the point of view here, but who is driving the car does effect your perception of how dangerous that car is. Until they introduce driverless cars that is.

For example if I'm stopped at traffic lights and a car driven by a 20 year old, white male with a shaven head and with his similar looking mates in it pulls up behind me I'm more concerned than if it's a women of the same age on her own. Does that make me sexist / racist- or just that in my experience the former will drive like an idiot whereas the latter will be far more cautious?

Having said that the only cars I feel more nervous around are those with tuned exhausts and taxis.

asprilla

Minis, Fiat 500s, etc.

People think they are small cars but they aren't and so they don't fit through the gaps their drivers think they will.

bdave262000

The two cars I had deliberate attempts to take me out with was a Range Rover Sport (female driver) and White Van (male driver), which is pretty good going for 30 odd years cycling in London. I give a wide birth to new Mini's but thats more to do with my perception of the drivers carelessness and a well known estate agent.

The Rookie

PerformingMonkey wrote:

Maybe I'm just too happy clappy? I just don't understand what difference the race or gender of the drivers has to do with anything in this thread,

Yup...

Risk assessment (in the sense of safe riding) is all about looking for stereotypes, be it BMW driver, Mini driver, Bus driver, Addison Lee driver, young driver or Asian driver, you're looking for clues that in your experience increase the risk to you, you don't have time to decide whether a particular driver fits the stereotype or not.

If in your experience Asian driver's do create a bigger risk (than your considered average), then that is not racist, it is racist if it has no supporting factual basis.

It's no good saying we are all the same, very few white women wear Hibab's, does that make it racist if I say Asian women are more likely to wear Hibab's? No it's a factual observation.

P*** corner shop used to be a common expression, now that could be a racist comment or it could just be descriptive, context is important.

If I said that Indians were more likely to be entrepreneurial than Europeans would that be racist or a fact, it IS a fact (statistically) yet I'm sure some people would say I was racially stereotyping unless they are mature enough to figure it out.

When Prince Phillip described some wiring as looking like it had been wired by Indians he was being generous as the state of some of the wiring in India is truly dreadful*, so was he being racist or making a fact based joke?

*My best one was watching an electrician trying to drill a hole in a ceiling for some wiring, the lead on the drill wasn't long enough, he was using an 'extension lead' that was twisted to the live and neutral wires (no plug and no earth obviously) and the bare wires at the other end were pushed into the plug socket using pieces of twig, he was standing on a step ladder and as he was drilling the drill kept cutting out as the live and neutral wires were touching together (in a shower of sparks), so he stood on one foot while trying to separate the wires with his bare toe (he was wearing his safety flip flops) while still drilling overhead. This was at a major industrial conglomerate's site in an the engineering office.

beanpie

I'll say new minis because they're usually driven by estate agents and we know how we feel about then.

Not sure if it carries over to cycling but when driving I have a rule about never letting Japanese cars out in front of me. I have no issue with the quality of the cars, it's just that the people who drive them seem to be consistently indecisive, lacking in spacial awareness and prone to maneuvering without looking first

The Rookie

beanpie wrote:

Not sure if it carries over to cycling but when driving I have a rule about never letting Japanese cars out in front of me. I have no issue with the quality of the cars, it's just that the people who drive them seem to be consistently indecisive, lacking in special awareness and prone to manoeuvring without looking first

I've not seen many Honda S2000, Nissan Skyline, Subaru Impreza, Mitsubishi Evo, Nissan 200SX, Toyota Supra, Mazda RX-8, or Honda Integra drivers I would call consistently indecisive......so maybe that is a good example of a poor stereotype (or is it you not knowing your Japanese cars!).

Where do you put the Citroen C1 and Peugeot 107 which are Japanese designed but built in Eastern Europe using engines from Japan?

Besides if they did drive as you describe you are better off having them in front of you where you can control the situation than behind were you can't so that is a poor risk assessment as well.

If your example had been Asian drivers then I suspect that would have been racism as it is not based in fact but purely on flawed perception.

beanpie

Whoa there. Just my own personal experience. Perhaps you and I don't encounter the same drivers.

tangled_metal

PerformingMonkey wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

I'm not racist but...

I deeply value the opinion of anyone who starts a sentence with this.

I'm glad you value my opinion and didn't rush in to judge me.

If you want to know something, in these so enlightened times with prejudice and opinionated individuals posting anonymously aiming to cause offence there are still some people who actually care that offence is not caused. However, I used that phrase without thinking clearly enough about how it comes across. Only wishing to express a view that the comment following that phrase was not based on racist views only experience of the drivers from the Asian community where I lived back then. It was not clearly thought through, which was blatantly exposed by your comments, but even with hindsight I do wonder what phrase would have worked. I should just have posted my comment without any phrase.

Can I just make one point out in support of my comment. As has been said previously better, the driver in a particular car has a huge affect on how safe that car is being driven. There are many stereotypes based on age, gender, race that affect this. You can have young male "boy racers" or old "blue rinsers" driving slowly and causing accidents around them. Or taxi drivers, or buses, or Mommys driving darling to school and cutting in for that parking space to let little johnny out. There are many types to keep an eye out and those change according to area. We have no Addison Lee cars here but when I lived in Blackburn/Preston area we had poor drivers from the local Pakistani community. Experience based on incidents when in my car and on my bike and as valid I think as those based solely on model of car. However I did narrow it down to BMW3 drivers as well as the ethnicity. They were mostly in the 17 to late twenties age bracket and male. Am I adding more prejudice onto my earlier statement by saying this??? At what point does valid experience become prejudice?

The Rookie

beanpie wrote:

Whoa there. Just my own personal experience. Perhaps you and I don't encounter the same drivers.

While failing to address what I said?

The point I was making was that what you said didn't stack up for me, so I was asking if you considered drivers of those cars I mentioned to match the same stereotype as the 75year old 'granny' in a Honda Civic, if you genuinely do, fine, if you don't then you have mis-described your risk assessment. If you don't know the cars I am talking about then what you mean when you say Japanese cars is cars you think are Japanese versus those you don't think are, which is different. Given the reputation of Impreza drivers (for example) they certainly don't fit your description of them as Japanese car drivers. Young reckless chav lunatics is the usual stereotype applied.

rubertoe

The Rookie wrote:

beanpie wrote:

Whoa there. Just my own personal experience. Perhaps you and I don't encounter the same drivers.

While failing to address what I said?

The point I was making was that what you said didn't stack up for me, so I was asking if you considered drivers of those cars I mentioned to match the same stereotype as the 75year old 'granny' in a Honda Civic, if you genuinely do, fine, if you don't then you have mis-described your risk assessment. If you don't know the cars I am talking about then what you mean when you say Japanese cars is cars you think are Japanese versus those you don't think are, which is different. Given the reputation of Impreza drivers (for example) they certainly don't fit your description of them as Japanese car drivers. Young reckless chav lunatics is the usual stereotype applied.

And there endeth the arguement...

seajays

I think the point is that there are good and bad drivers in all walks of life: every sex, creed and colour! Whilst sterotypes are fine (if you're in insurance), in reality when you're on the bike you have no idea whether that particular person in that particular vehicle at that particular moment is a good or bad driver - or is a fantastic driver who is about to have a momentary lapse of concentration or distraction.

Stay paranoid and trust no-one. 8)

elbowloh

Are there any danger bikes we should be looking out for in particular?

I'm gonna go for any MTB shaped bike with "Barracuda" written on the side.

pblakeney

elbowloh wrote:

Are there any danger bikes we should be looking out for in particular?

I'm gonna go for any MTB shaped bike with "Barracuda" written on the side.

Ridden by someone wearing a hoodie.

MisterMuncher

Hyundai. cheap, and usually someone's first or last car. Equally bad for different reasons

y33stu

Whoever said Pick Up trucks is spot on.

The Mitsubishi Shogun, Nissan Navaras, etc.... Basically these cars are driven by small, angry, stocky men who think that because they drive a big car, they own the road. They tend to be builders, plumbers etc...

One of my friends is case in point, I would hate be cycling near him.. sums up this type of driver perfectly.

I've had more arguments with pick up drivers than any type of car.

bdave262000

y33stu wrote:

Whoever said Pick Up trucks is spot on.

The Mitsubishi Shogun, Nissan Navaras, etc.... Basically these cars are driven by small, angry, stocky men who think that because they drive a big car, they own the road. They tend to be builders, plumbers etc...

One of my friends is case in point, I would hate be cycling near him.. sums up this type of driver perfectly.

I've had more arguments with pick up drivers than any type of car.

+1 That one slipped my mind, but the ones I have seen are driven exactly by the people you describe.

davis

beanpie

No argument here. I'm sure this thread's just a bit of a laugh, no?

The Rookie

elbowloh wrote:

Are there any danger bikes we should be looking out for in particular?

I'm gonna go for any MTB shaped bike with "Barracuda" written on the side.

Add Probike, Trax, Dunlop and many others!

elbowloh

The ultimate Danger car

Big_Paul

y33stu wrote:

Whoever said Pick Up trucks is spot on.

The Mitsubishi Shogun, Nissan Navaras, etc.... Basically these cars are driven by small, angry, stocky men who think that because they drive a big car, they own the road. They tend to be builders, plumbers etc...

One of my friends is case in point, I would hate be cycling near him.. sums up this type of driver perfectly.

I've had more arguments with pick up drivers than any type of car.

Next car will probably be a Navara, purely because the engine in my Terrano will be perfect long after the rest of it dissolves and there are plenty of Navaras with dodgy engines that I can drop the Terrano lump into. I find that when you drive a big 4x4 people tend to drive aggressively round you, or maybe because I know the damage it could do, I drive it like a nun.

My own bugbear is Audi A3 drivers, they think they are too posh for a Golf, but they're too poor to buy an A4. Women driving Insignias are a real PITA, I saw one literally steer into the kerb because she couldn't turn the wheel enough to make the corner because she had her phone in her hand. Damn car probably has built in bluetooth as well.

roger_merriman

The Rookie wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

Are there any danger bikes we should be looking out for in particular?

I'm gonna go for any MTB shaped bike with "Barracuda" written on the side.

Add Probike, Trax, Dunlop and many others!

To be honest it's roadies overtaking far too close, drafting etc, rather than lads on supermarket specials that tend to make me curse admitly I'm close to MAMIL Center of the universe ie Richmond Park, where you get some um variable riding.

HebdenBiker

Absolutely anything parked outside a school at 3:00.

veronese68

I was just thinking after this morning's ride anything on the school run. I was riding along at about 20nph and I noticed the car overtaking me with a load of kids in it was indicating left to turn into the school just ahead of me. Much braking and exasperated swearing took place.