National 10

inseine

madasahattersley wrote:

Hampton - 17:58
Hutch - 17:53
Mullen - 17:42
Bottrill - 17:40

4 17s on 1 event has to be a record, and there is a HUGE amount of 18s and every other man and his dog did a 19. Wish I'd entered now!

So Bottrill won it? Top bloke.
Just shows how technology, aero and training has come on recently.

frenchfighter

Very fast, almost certainly due to course and conditions. Pleased Hutch didnt win. Botrill has been cleaning up nicely this year - has the 50mile TT record as well.



And looky who got 2nd. None other than that Irish bloke. 20 years old. Wow.

specialgueststar

yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn

mulletmaster

I don't believe the deepest of pockets will save you more than 20 seconds in a 10 vs a ratty old P2 with cheap tri spoke and ancient old flat disc with a good set of racy tubs at a total cost of £1000.
What will save minutes are scientific, structured training and crazily fast drag strips where you get sucked up the road by 40 foot lorries.
I'm surprised Mullen didn't get it but also that Hutch was as close as he was. I don't think many wanted him getting another one TBH. Simply unbelievable that so many people did 19s and under.

specialgueststar

2012 I thought we had done this

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1 MARTIN Tony 46.765.
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46 HUTCHINSON Michael 5:23

mulletmaster

So what? There was a pro in the race hence it is pro racing. although could obviously have fitted in the amateur racing sub forum. If you have no interest in it why "contribute"? I doubt anyone expects this to attract as much interest as a MTF in the TDF but it's more interesting than a load of guff that gets chatted about.

inseine

mulletmaster wrote:

I don't believe the deepest of pockets will save you more than 20 seconds in a 10 vs a ratty old P2 with cheap tri spoke and ancient old flat disc with a good set of racy tubs at a total cost of £1000.
What will save minutes are scientific, structured training and crazily fast drag strips where you get sucked up the road by 40 foot lorries.
I'm surprised Mullen didn't get it but also that Hutch was as close as he was. I don't think many wanted him getting another one TBH. Simply unbelievable that so many people did 19s and under.

There is probably more traffic these days but there has always been drag strips. It's crazy if they are still using that sort of course.
What we didn't have 10 years ago was fairly widespread use of wind tunnels. For £1000 that will probably gain you more than you think.

frenchfighter

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn

Don't post on this thread then!

specialgueststar

mulletmaster wrote:

So what? There was a pro in the race hence it is pro racing..

If you say so

jimmythecuckoo

One of the blue riband events of the domestic cycling season.

Deserves, a place on here for me.

BenderRodriguez

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

2012 I thought we had done this

Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN Tony 46.765.
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46 HUTCHINSON Michael 5:23

To be fair, losing just 5 minutes to the likes of Martin is not a bad performance. Just look back to the days when Ken Joy, Britain's best time trialist of the time, went over to ride the GP Des Nations with the intention of showing Johnny Foreigner just what time trialling was all about. Anquetil, who was just 19 at the time, caught him for 16 minutes and went on to put over 20 minutes into him! To be fair Anquetil was probably speeding off his tits!



Back to the '10'....

A lot of impressive times there, but a lot can be put down to modern advances in aerodynamics.

mfin

BenderRodriguez wrote:

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

2012 I thought we had done this

Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN Tony 46.765.
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46 HUTCHINSON Michael 5:23

To be fair, losing just 5 minutes to the likes of Martin is not a bad performance. Just look back to the days when Ken Joy, Britain's best time trialist of the time, went over to ride the GP Des Nations with the intention of showing Johnny Foreigner just what time trialling was all about. Anquetil, who was just 19 at the time, caught him for 16 minutes and went on to put over 20 minutes into him! To be fair Anquetil was probably speeding off his tits!



Back to the '10'....

A lot of impressive times there, but a lot can be put down to modern advances in aerodynamics.

It looks like his saddle is high in that photo. He needs a bikeradar forum guesswork bike fit

morstar

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

2012 I thought we had done this

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Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN Tony 46.765.
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46 HUTCHINSON Michael 5:23

As a risk averse person who spent a lot of my life avoiding any exposure to failure...(fortunately no longer applies)

I admire him for having a go. Better to have lived and lost than to have never lived at all.

Sincere apologies for quote b*stardisation

Besides, what would most sports be if only those with a very real prospect of success turned up?

A 5 man Grand Tour, a 3 team premier league...

mm1

Back to the '10'....

A lot of impressive times there, but a lot can be put down to modern advances in aerodynamics.[/quote]

It looks like his saddle is high in that photo. He needs a bikeradar forum guesswork bike fit [/quote]


Maitre Jacques had a unique toe down pedalling style - he was also awesomely aero, it would be interesting to see how he and the incomperable Alf Engers compare in terms of wind resistance with a modern tri-bar position.

norvernrob

madasahattersley wrote:

I'm sure it was a rapid day but I agree training and technology have come on so far that 86 people today went under 20 mins, and 24 went under 19. All of them bar Mullen are just amateurs probably with very few training hours, just very deep pockets

Matt Bottrill is a postie, there was an article on him in the RM staff magazine recently. He said he struggles to get enough training time in, but manages 7-8hrs per week.

And considering he earns the same as me, he definitely hasn't got deep pockets

BenderRodriguez

mm1 wrote:

Maitre Jacques had a unique toe down pedalling style - he was also awesomely aero, it would be interesting to see how he and the incomperable Alf Engers compare in terms of wind resistance with a modern tri-bar position.

It's not just the aerodynamics though. Holding a position like Anquetil or Engers managed is a real physical effort in itself, as compared to being 'locked in' to an aero position on tri-bars.

mroli

NorvernRob wrote:

Matt Bottrill is a postie, there was an article on him in the RM staff magazine recently. He said he struggles to get enough training time in, but manages 7-8hrs per week.

And considering he earns the same as me, he definitely hasn't got deep pockets

Matt Bottrill won't buy his own kit though will he? He's sponsored (drag2zero?) and I distinctly remember in Hutch's The Hour book that he was getting his sponsors to come up with kit for him... I know they won't be making "real" money, but it won't be costing them "deep pocket" amounts?

specialgueststar

just to put Hutch's performance in perspective - he would have finished with the laughing boys today - and thats from someone who has dedicated his life to going 'fast'

unfortunately there were no tractors/caravans/hgv's on the course today

okgo

Whichever way you want to cut it, Hutch has been a very dominant force in UK TT's and has won this event ten times and made a living from it.

It's a quick course for sure but not as quick as the normal v718.

As for modern advances in aero dynamics, yes and no. The most aero bloke in the whole event has the exact same bike as me and has not been to the wind tunnel. He also isn't the smallest or thinnest rider. Advances in software help, but ultimately it's testing things and assessing the outcome unless you want to pay for someone to do that for you.

Pokerface

TO put this event into perspective you'd really need a Wiggins or Dowsett out there I suppose.

But a 10, on a flat, fast course is more forgiving than any other course in the world. Hell, even I've done a 21 on that course. Comparing Hutch to Martin in the World's and trying to extrapolate onto a course like this isn't really accurate. They would be much closer I suspect if they raced head to head.

Anyway, the speed on this course is down to the course itself and not the riders. But still good to see what the UK riders are doing (and Ryan Mullen of course!)

inseine

okgo wrote:

The most aero bloke in the whole event has the exact same bike as me and has not been to the wind tunnel.

Sorry to turn this into a geekfest, not how do you know he is the most aero? Would save a fortune in tunnel time.

okgo

Because I have the numbers from all the riders who put their rides on strava and someone smarter than me has worked out their drag.

Colin, it wasn't the regular course, this course is apparently around 15-20 seconds slower than the normal. Most of the top 20 blokes would all be capable of a 18's on 19's on other courses that were not as 'fast'.

ugo.santalucia

Are there any doping tests at this level? If not, comparing performance with the PRO cycling world is meaningless as the rules are different.
Surprised that someone like Hutchinson gets 5 minutes in a TT against Tony Martin... put things in perspective, I guess

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Surprised that someone like Hutchinson gets 5 minutes in a TT against Tony Martin... put things in perspective, I guess

It's just a single result. You can find other results which show the opposite. For example, this makes him look pretty good:

40km:
1. David Millar (Sco) 47 minutes 19 seconds,
2. Alex Dowsett (Eng) at 55secs,
3. Luke Durbridge (Aus) 1min 1sec,
4. Michael Hutchinson (Nir) 2mins 14secs,
5. Chris Froome (Eng) 2mins 20secs,
6. Rohan Dennis (Aus) 3mins 3secs,
7. Zachary Bell (Can) 3mins 17secs,
8. Jack Bauer (NZ) 3mins 30secs,
9. Jesse Sergent (NZ) 4mins 15secs

inseine

RichN95 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Surprised that someone like Hutchinson gets 5 minutes in a TT against Tony Martin... put things in perspective, I guess

It's just a single result. You can find other results which show the opposite. For example, this makes him look pretty good:

40km:
1. David Millar (Sco) 47 minutes 19 seconds,
2. Alex Dowsett (Eng) at 55secs,
3. Luke Durbridge (Aus) 1min 1sec,
4. Michael Hutchinson (Nir) 2mins 14secs,
5. Chris Froome (Eng) 2mins 20secs,
6. Rohan Dennis (Aus) 3mins 3secs,
7. Zachary Bell (Can) 3mins 17secs,
8. Jack Bauer (NZ) 3mins 30secs,
9. Jesse Sergent (NZ) 4mins 15secs

He beat some good guys there. It was a straight out and back, dead flat course, so appart from the lack of HGVs a lot more British. Because he doesn't road race, like all the others, he probably looses out on technical courses.

ugo.santalucia

RichN95 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Surprised that someone like Hutchinson gets 5 minutes in a TT against Tony Martin... put things in perspective, I guess

It's just a single result. You can find other results which show the opposite. For example, this makes him look pretty good:

40km:
1. David Millar (Sco) 47 minutes 19 seconds,
2. Alex Dowsett (Eng) at 55secs,
3. Luke Durbridge (Aus) 1min 1sec,
4. Michael Hutchinson (Nir) 2mins 14secs,
5. Chris Froome (Eng) 2mins 20secs,
6. Rohan Dennis (Aus) 3mins 3secs,
7. Zachary Bell (Can) 3mins 17secs,
8. Jack Bauer (NZ) 3mins 30secs,
9. Jesse Sergent (NZ) 4mins 15secs

Possibly maybe... looks like Commonwealth Games? The CG are good quality for swimming, some athletic disciplines where the Caribbean are strong... cycling is pretty paltry to be honest, as the big Aussie guys don't bother to show up. Thomas won by a mile, with a puncture, while just a week earlier was greyer than grey at the Tour

Look at diving, Tom Daley won the 10 mt pretty much uncontested, while his chance of a medal in Rio are pretty weak

okgo

Yes, but look at that field there. That is a very decent TT field.

To answer your earlier question, yes there were doping tests for around 7 or so riders I think.

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Possibly maybe... looks like Commonwealth Games? The CG are good quality for swimming, some athletic disciplines where the Caribbean are strong... cycling is pretty paltry to be honest, as the big Aussie guys don't bother to show up. Thomas won by a mile, with a puncture, while just a week earlier was greyer than grey at the Tour

Look at diving, Tom Daley won the 10 mt pretty much uncontested, while his chance of a medal in Rio are pretty weak

That's not my point. My point is you can pick an individual performance to support almost any point of view.

ugo.santalucia

I guess the difference is that someone like Hutchinson is a one trick pony, who can do an amazingly quick 10 miler, where/when he knows all the corners, but that's about it, while someone like Tony Martin can finish the Tour de france bagging one stage, win time trials of pretty much any length and profile and be an outstanding domestique and all without the need to sleep under an hypobaric tent...

Looking at the matter from the sofa, they are planets apart

mulletmaster

Of course they are hence why one is a global superstar and the other rides up and down dual carriageways in Hull :roll:

mm1

If you read Hutch's latest book he is very honest (and quite amusing) about how and why he is (a lot) quicker than most of us on here, but not quite world class. Both Hutch and Alex have ridden my club's open 10 (sadly not in the same year), which is the closest that someone old, fat and slow like me ever gets to comparing myself to a real athlete.

While it might be a case of big fish, small pond and we all know that the national 10 is a long way away from the World Tour, it is a meaningful benchmark for most club riders and there are, and always have been, some very fine athletes at the sharp end of the thing.