Scott Foil HMX Team Issue Di2 (update 06.04.15)

DKay

Put together my Westbrooks special the past couple of days and took her out for a spin this morning - nothing fell off. It was my first full-build and experience of Di2. Pleased with how it turned out and thanks to all forum members who helped me out with my questions.





SW-R610 satellite sprint shifters (PITA to wrap). Also, when installing them into the main shifters, they will only fit the lowest port. Took me 10mins of head scratching to work that out.


Pleased with the neatness of the cables. Think I did a pretty decent job. New Garmin out-front mount on order.


Frame: 2013 49cm (XS) Scott Foil HMX Team Issue Di2
Forks: Foil full carbon
Bars: Deda Zero 100 (40cm)
Stem: Deda Zero 100 (80mm)
Headset: Ritchey WCS Logic Zero PF
Bar Tape: Lizard Skins DSP Bar Tape 3.2mm

Front Brake Lever: Shimano Ultegra 6870 Di2
Front Caliper: Shimano BR5800
Rear Brake Lever: Shimano Ultegra 6870 Di2
Rear Caliper: Shimano BR5800

Shifters: Shimano Ultegra 6870 Di2 with SW-R610 satellite sprint shifters
Cables: Shimano
Front Mech: Ultegra Di2 6870 11spd.
Rear Mech: Ultegra Di2 6870 11spd. SS

Seat: Specialized Toupe Pro
Seat Post: Ritchey FOIL Carbon Aero
Seat Post Clamp: Integrated

Cranks: 170mm Rotor 3D
Chainring(s): Praxis Works 50-34t
Chain: Shimano 5800
Cassette: Shimano 5800 11-28t
Pedals: Speedplay Stainless Steel
Bottom Bracket: Shimano PF86

Wheels: Shimano RS11 (temporary measure - waiting for some handbuilts)
Tube: Michelin
Tire: 25mm Specialized Pro 4 Endurance (will be going to tubeless Schwalbe Ones later)

Accessories: Elite Custom Race & Elite Cannibal bottle cages

Weight: 16.8lbs (inc. pedals)

Shout out to Westbrook Cycles who were fantastic to deal with. Unreal total deal and such a bunch of top guys. Would highly recommend them to anyone.

The bike was lovely to ride on this mornings steady 40mile club ride. My Cayo Evo (which has the same tyres and cockpit) has excellent torsional stiffness and almost identical geometry, but the Foil feels so rock solid, especially under power. Stomp on the pedals and you get an immediate response which is especially noticable on seated climbing, even with the heavy RS11s. The Foil also feels like the mass is slightly higher up and steers faster than the Cayo. It gives a slightly more nervous, reactive feel, but I like this.

The Foil has a reputation for a harsh ride in press reviews, but similar to other Foil owners, I didn't find it harsh at all. The ride is a little more direct than my Cayo, but it still feels smooth; especially on the 25mm Pro 4s which come up at 26mm wide and have a tall profile. I'd have no qualms at all doing long distances on it.

Also, I was really impressed with the braking power and feel from Shimanos latest design. A good step upwards in performance from the old 5700.

johnnymcg259

Nice little (no pun intended) bike that........and review, well done. Hope you enjoy it but its nearly the end of the 2014 season and it'll go away surely until Spring 2015? You building a winter bike?!

diamonddog

Looking good, fancying Di2 as my next bike gearing option, how have you found it?

DKay

johnnymcg259 wrote:

Nice little (no pun intended) bike that........and review, well done. Hope you enjoy it but its nearly the end of the 2014 season and it'll go away surely until Spring 2015? You building a winter bike?!

Yep, a 49cm frame as I'm only 5'4'' and weigh 58kg.

This is definitely going to be my 'best bike' and it's not going to see any winter roads unless they're perfectly dry. I've got my Cayo Evo fitted with Crud Road Racers for winter duties. Although I kinda question the wisdom of using a carbon-framed full Ultegra bike as a winter hack. I wash it down regularly though.

DKay

diamonddog wrote:

Looking good, fancying Di2 as my next bike gearing option, how have you found it?

Thanks for the complement. I was a bit dubious about the benefits of electronic shifting, but having used it now I think it's superb. The shifting is just so damn quick, almost silent and bang on every time. Doing front shifts onto the big ring with zero effort is a novelty that won't ever wear thin I think. The best complement I can give it, is that you don't notice it.

But, is it worth the extra cost over mechanical 6800? Difficult to justify, but it's a very nice thing to have.

declan1

Nice bike! I think the sprint shifters would be easier to install if you just wrapped the tape as normal, then used a stanley knife to cut around the shifter.

Boxsters

DKay wrote:

johnnymcg259 wrote:

Nice little (no pun intended) bike that........and review, well done. Hope you enjoy it but its nearly the end of the 2014 season and it'll go away surely until Spring 2015? You building a winter bike?!

Yep, a 49cm frame as I'm only 5'4'' and weigh 58kg.

This is definitely going to be my 'best bike' and it's not going to see any winter roads unless they're perfectly dry. I've got my Cayo Evo fitted with Crud Road Racers for winter duties. Although I kinda question the wisdom of using a carbon-framed full Ultegra bike as a winter hack. I wash it down regularly though.

Lovely looking bike and great value with the deal from Westbrooks.

I have to say though that I don't understand the whole not using a carbon bike in the Winter thing. I am not fortunate enough to afford 2 road bikes so my carbon Cervelo is used all year but I do have a carbon mountain bike that I throw all weathers and conditions at.

I never hear comments about not using the MTB so what's the difference. Am I missing something here? :?

johnnymcg259

DKay wrote:

johnnymcg259 wrote:

Nice little (no pun intended) bike that........and review, well done. Hope you enjoy it but its nearly the end of the 2014 season and it'll go away surely until Spring 2015? You building a winter bike?!

Yep, a 49cm frame as I'm only 5'4'' and weigh 58kg.

This is definitely going to be my 'best bike' and it's not going to see any winter roads unless they're perfectly dry. I've got my Cayo Evo fitted with Crud Road Racers for winter duties. Although I kinda question the wisdom of using a carbon-framed full Ultegra bike as a winter hack. I wash it down regularly though.

Christ! You can't use the Cayo either......waaaay too good for winter - spend circa £300 on a hack bike, safe in the knowledge that if (when?) you take a tumble on the mud, slush, ice, cow sh*te you're not wrecking anything major.

DKay

Well, I rode my Cayo all the way through last winter and equipped with Crud Road Racers, it served me pretty well with no ill effects to the bike. I may try and find a second hand Allez or something this year though.

N+1 and all that...

DKay

A few changes over the past few weeks; The 80m stem has been replaced for a 90mm item and is now slammed as much as possible. The 143mm Toupe Pro has been swapped out for a Prologo Nago Evo CPC.

Biggest change is that my hand builts arrived yesterday, which are Archetype H Plus Son rims, laced to Miche hubs with Sapim Lazer spokes, 20h 24h. I've gone tubeless with the tyres, which are Schwalbe One 23s. The wheels aren't that light, but they feel super stiff and responsive and are a big improvement over the RS11s. The Schwalbe tubeless tyres feel great.



P.S. Sorry for the small sprocket/small chainring faux pas.

matt-h

Nice. I have the exact same frame and wheels.
I would have a word with your wheel builder though - faux pas with the wheel rim.
Are they tubeless compatible?
What pressure are you running?

Matt

rolf_f

matt-h wrote:

I would have a word with your wheel builder though - faux pas with the wheel rim.

Dear me yes! Tell him to put the rear rim on the right way round.......

dirtymonkey1985

I have the same wheels/frame as well and its an absolute joy to ride. Just got back from the south of France and it's a million times stiffer than my old ribble was. Interested to hear about the tubeless wheels as well.

cubedean

Rolf F wrote:

matt-h wrote:

I would have a word with your wheel builder though - faux pas with the wheel rim.

Dear me yes! Tell him to put the rear rim on the right way round.......

Or just turn the front wheel around

The wheels look great!

rolf_f

cubedean wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

matt-h wrote:

I would have a word with your wheel builder though - faux pas with the wheel rim.

Dear me yes! Tell him to put the rear rim on the right way round.......

Or just turn the front wheel around

The wheels look great!

Then you'd have to put the chain set on the other way round as well!

DKay

matt-h wrote:

Nice. I have the exact same frame and wheels.
I would have a word with your wheel builder though - faux pas with the wheel rim.
Are they tubeless compatible?
What pressure are you running?

Matt

Oh crap. I've turned the front wheel around, but now the lettering on the hub is facing the wrong way. :? Hahaha!

The wheels aren't that light, but they are just so stiff and really make the Foil frame absolutely fly. I'm surprised at the difference to be honest, they're a great combination. It doesn't hurt that they look great too. Thanks for the positive comments.

As standard, Archetypes aren't tubeless compatible, but the conversion is really simple to do. Just remove the standard rim tapes and fit two runs of Stans 21mm Yellow Tape instead to make the spoke bed airtight (no need for Stans Rim Tapes). Fit the tyres, then wet the beads with some really soapy water which will help with the initial inflation, pump like crazy with your track pump and with any luck the tyre will inflate with no issues. I added 40ml of Stans sealant before pushing on the second bead for puncture protection too.

The Schwalbe Ones feel like they roll super fast and make my Foil ride as supple as my Cayo Evo fitted with normal 23mm Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX IIs. On the RS11s I was running huge 25mm Pro 4 Endurances, but the Ones ride so much nicer despite their smaller size. The combo with the Archetypes gives you the confidence to just hammer over rough ground, instead of backing off like you sometimes might riding a Foil. I weigh 58kg and ran pressures of 90/80psi rear/front, which is the same as what I was running with standard 23mm clinchers. I'm thinking of going 5psi lower in future.

matt-h

Thanks for the reply Dkay.
I've been running 25mm Vittoria Corsas, and while they ride lovely they do look a bit 'over rubbered' for the Foil frame.
My worry is that running such high pressures, the tubeless bead could pop off of the standard Archetype clincher rim?
I'm running 6800 wheels with 28mm Ones on a Volare and they are very nice, I'm just reluctant to try tubelesss on clincher rims.

Matt

DKay

I wouldn't think that the stress on the bead of the rim would be any greater then if you were running standard clinchers with tubes. In fact, the bead on tubeless tyres is quite a bit beefier to make them seat onto the hook of the rim better and form an airtight seal. In my opinion, the tubeless tyre is probably more secure in comparison.

Butch Coolidge

I saw the first picture and thought it was mine! I have the same saddle on my XS team issue foil, can't be many around that exact combination.

I'm just curious, do you get any creaking or squeaking? At about 30 minutes into a ride, and especially if I'm climbing, I start to get a little creaking. I don't know if this is coming from the BB or the headset.

I wondered if this issue was down to the need to knock out the pre-installed press-fit BB to instal the Di2, then re-fit it.....

My stem is slammed right to the bottom, and I'd probably drop it further if I could, but if you need a small frame you don't get the option.

DKay

I get the odd rattle from (I presume) the junction box and cables shoved up the downtube, but don't get any creaks or squeeks thankfully. The obvious thing to check is if the creak is related to your road speed or cadence. If it's the latter, then does it happen in or out of the saddle? This will point towards the saddle/seatpost or cranks/pedals/BB/cockpit respectively.

I'm also quite surprised how reletively high the stack height is, on what is supposed to be an aggressive race bike. With the stem slammed, it's the same height as my Cayo Evo fitted with a 5mm spacer. Although to be fair, this does also point out just how race orientated the geometry is on the Focus.

ror3h

Mine developed a BB creak after ~300 miles. Removed and refitted with carbon friendly grease and the proper park tool adapter and seems fine since *touch wood*.

Butch Coolidge

How many miles since the greasing? I read somewhere that grease should only be required for aluminium frames, but if it's working!.... and them some swear by locktite!

After some considerable googling it appears there are 2 standards of the shimano press-fit, like most componenets. One an 'ultregra' quality http://tiny.cc/hab4nx and one a 'dura ace' quality http://tiny.cc/xbb4nx ... perhaps this makes a difference, and it makes you wonder why.

There also seem to be some discussion about whether the push fit BB is a one-time installarion, and my removal and re-installation may be a reason.

DKay

I didn't grease the BB at all and just pressed it in dry. Removing and reinstalling isn't great for the BB as the reletively soft plastic cups aren't really going to take kindly to it. I also fitted my BB with a home-made press.

DKay

The weather was awesome today, so went out for my first good run with the new (re-tensioned) Superstar carbon clinchers. Have treated them to some 25mm Corsa SCs as I wanted to see how tanwalls would look. Sometimes I think they look great, but then I think they look a bit much. I've since had a bike fit done too and the saddle has gone 12mm up and 14mm back(!).

Also, this the first time I've been out and done some decent climbs on the Foil and it was excellent. Obviously very light, but the power transfer through the bottom bracket was brilliant. This was especially noticeable out of the saddle.




...and with all black Pro4 Endurances for comparison.

matt-h

i have the exact same dilemma - well, if you can call it a dilemma.

Looks great either way

Matt

RideOnTime

nice lines...

DKay

matt-h wrote:

i have the exact same dilemma - well, if you can call it a dilemma.

Looks great either way

Matt

Cheers Matt. I took the plunge with the SCs after seeing your Foil with gumwalls.

RideOnTime wrote:

nice lines...

Thanks. The Foil frame is one of the few which still looks pretty good in the smaller sizes. Most other XS frames make the top tube look too steeply sloped.