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Told it was 2014 model - actually it is a 2012 model

N5girlN5girl Posts: 12
edited August 2014 in Road buying advice
Hi

I would be grateful for some advice.

I bought a bike in my LBS (based on a few recommendations from locals who have used them over the years and raved about the service) - a Whyte Cambridge. I went to this particular LBS because they are a Whyte stockist and I had done some research and worked out that I wanted a Whyte bike. The assistant told me it was 2014 model. I did some googling tonight and it turns out that they have actually sold me a 2012 model. The price was reduced from £899 to £560 on the basis that they would be getting 2015 models in soon.

I know I should probably have gone away to consider my choice and done even more research but my time is very limited, I had a screaming toddler in tow intent on riding all the 'BIG BIKES MOMMY' and I don't know a huge amount about commuter bikes. I went to a LBS because I thought I would get decent advice and now I feel a bit let down/conned. I know I probably should have smelled a rat with the price reduction and hindsight is a wonderful thing but it does not have toddler and a lack of sleep to deal with.

What do you think/what would you do? Any idea about where I stand legally? Is it a big deal?

I have not collected the bike yet, however I have paid for it and they are fitting some accessories to it.

Thanks

PS I know this is a road bike section of the forum but I thought lots of people here would have experience of dealing with a LBS etc.

Posts

  • deswellerdesweller Posts: 5,175
    I guess if I were in your shoes I'd first find out how much the bike is actually worth vs how much you were charged. If I judged that it was still a good deal then I'd not worry about it.

    Bikes don't actually change very much from year to year, and in fact are often a worse deal these days as a result of increasing demand allowing manufacturers to drive up prices/reduce specs.

    Legally...it would be difficult to prove the contents of a verbal exchange.

    What bike did you get, by the way?
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    On Strava.{/url}
  • N5girlN5girl Posts: 12
    It was a Whyte Cambridge 2012. I can't easily see a value for the bike because no one seems to be selling it anymore apart from one site that has it listed for £600. It originally retailed for £849 or £899 depending which site you look at.

    EDIT: I am now also questioning the rest of the transaction - i.e. the advice on some of the accessories I have got fitted and the fact that they are getting the bike 'road ready'. The main reason I went with a Whyte bike and a LBS, instead of a Boardman was that I did not want to go to Halfords. Now I am seriously questioning whether a LBS was a sensible choice which I think is the saddest thing.
  • deswellerdesweller Posts: 5,175
    The Whyte website: http://whyte.bike/2012/bike_page.php?ModNo=W-1-031-12

    SRAM 10-speed, hydraulic brakes, carbon fork, mudguard and rack eyes. A good general-purpose bike for £560 IMO. The chief compromise that I see is the unbranded hubs. But that is certainly not an uncommon feature of bikes at this price point.

    I am not a big fan of bike shops, I must admit. Very hard to find a good one staffed with honest, knowledgeable people. But I don't think you've been particularly stiffed in this case even if they've told a tall tale to make the sale. What other accessories are they fitting?
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    On Strava.{/url}
  • N5girlN5girl Posts: 12
    Thanks - I think it might be difficult to prove that they told me it was a 2014 model because it was done verbally. I don't have anything in writing.
  • dj58dj58 Posts: 2,184
    Hello,

    Did the assistant know it was a 2012 model or did he make a mistake? If you were deliberately told it was a 2014 model when they know it is a 2012 bike and they did not make that clear to you, then I would think that is a case of misrepresentation and you would be within your rights to reject the bike and ask for your money back.

    If you are not happy about having the 2012 model do not take delivery of it, I think you should go back to them or ring and ask to speak to the Manager and ask what they are prepared to do about it.

    I assume you have done some more research since you agreed to purchase the bike and have noticed some differences in the specification of each year model? If you can live with the bike ask for a further reduction in the price, if not ask for the 2014 model bike, though they probably don't have one in your size, that's why they have sold you the 2012 model (new old stock).

    Hopefully someone will be along shortly to advise you of your consumer rights in more depth. I Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.
  • N5girlN5girl Posts: 12
    Re accessories - the biggest issue is with the mudguards - as the research I read suggested it was a good idea to fit the Whyte mudguards (something to do with clearance). The owner told me that the ones he stocked (Tortec) were fine and that they used them on all the commuter bikes.

    Realistically, I am annoyed because I thought I got good advice and a good deal but actually I probably just got a very average deal and a load of blarney. Buyer beware as my Mum would say.

    No idea if the sales assistant knew it was 2012 or not. He seemed to be new - and they were watching over him to some degree. He may not have been aware that it had been hanging around for 2 years - however the owner would definitely have been aware.
  • deswellerdesweller Posts: 5,175
    Personally I'd be happy with it. I don't think you'd easily find another bike with that finishing kit at that price; I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to prove otherwise!

    Looking at the 22012, 2013 and 2015 specs for the same model they haven't changed much; brand change on the brakes and a paint job but that's about it; they're still SRAM 10-speed, hydraulic brakes etc. So in most of the ways that matter you've still got a £850 bike for £560. But if you have a need to have '2014' written on it then perhaps you need to go back to the shop.
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    On Strava.{/url}
  • N5girlN5girl Posts: 12
    Thanks for this - it is making me feel a bit better. I had already compromised on the colour as I thought it wasn't worth paying retail price just to get a black bike - so I am not bothered about the year at all provided it is still a decent deal.

    It has just removed some of the excitement for me. My partner is livid and thinks that they don't deserve my money (code for they saw me coming!).

    I will still raise it with the manager as I am sure a free service or two might make me feel a bit better about the whole thing.
  • PhilbyPhilby Posts: 328
    Nearly every sale of goods involves a description of some kind. The description may just be the label on the goods or the wording, or photograph on the packaging. Sometimes the description is a verbal or written description given by a salesperson. For example, a used car may be described by a garage salesperson as being a 2003 model.

    This is from the Sale of Goods Act which I linked to above.
  • N5girlN5girl Posts: 12
    The link suggests that a 2014 bike is only £595 v £560 I paid for a 2yr old model that had been hanging around the shop floor. I know that online will be a bit cheaper v going into your LBS.

    I will have a chat with the manager next week about it and see what they say.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,444
    Of course it is not right, but do not assume the 2014 model is necessarily better than the 2012 one. IME year on year specs are lowered rather than bettered to meet the same price point, so it is possible your 2012 bike is actually better than a 2014 one, as well as the opposite is possible, as well as they might be the same thing except for the colour
  • bmxboy10bmxboy10 Posts: 1,908
    Of course it is not right, but do not assume the 2014 model is necessarily better than the 2012 one. IME year on year specs are lowered rather than bettered to meet the same price point, so it is possible your 2012 bike is actually better than a 2014 one, as well as the opposite is possible, as well as they might be the same thing except for the colour
    Agree with what Ugo said. Year on year bikes get more expensive and the specs get worse. In 2009 i bought a trek hard tail for £800 but today the same bike is almost £1700! What I would say is you have to do your own research before you buy. I have stopped counting the amount of times I have been into retail shops and known more about the product then then sales assistant and I don't just mean bikes.
  • meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,337
    edited August 2014
    Ugo is right - bike specs often get slightly worse year on year (at this level in the market) to maintain a price point.

    Maybe the simple thing to do is to innocently ask them to confirm what year it is when you go to pick it up.

    As above, verbal is as good as anything.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • jordan_217jordan_217 Posts: 2,580
    Of course it is not right, but do not assume the 2014 model is necessarily better than the 2012 one. IME year on year specs are lowered rather than bettered to meet the same price point, so it is possible your 2012 bike is actually better than a 2014 one, as well as the opposite is possible, as well as they might be the same thing except for the colour

    Agree with Paolo on this. Standard bike specs are getting worse year on year as manufacturers scrimp on kit in order to deliver the bike to a price point. How many manufactuers deliver a bike with a *full* [brand/model] groupset these days? Most of the big players! Low end brakes and chainsets are becoming common place.
    “Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”
  • northpolenorthpole Posts: 1,499
    Chances are that the bike is fine - you have to make the comparisons between 2012 & 2014 models. That should identify if you have been sold a pup.

    The more interesting aspect will emerge from the conversation you should have with the store manager/ owner. I would feel compelled to raise the issue and seek clarification on whether they knew it was 2012; assuming the young lad may not have, what about the more experienced folks who were overseeing the transaction? The fundamental thing is trust - the kind of response you get will be a major tool to letting you decide what level of trust you can/ should have in this dealer. And ultimately whether you then want to complete the transaction or request a refund.

    If someone deliberately pulls a fast one on me; and/ or responds poorly when challenged, well, that would make it crystal clear what action I'd next take. But that's just me!!

    Peter
  • N5girlN5girl Posts: 12
    Ok thanks for all the advice. No one likes to be made to feel like a fool and I think probably it is my pride which is hurting more than anything.

    I thought I had done enough research - albeit I had not written down the colours of the various models and years. In future the key thing to do is to walk out of the shop - go have a cup of tea and spend 20 mins on the 'net researching what you have just been told. This is definitely something I normally do at the big bike sheds - however I naively thought I could trust this LBS (because of the recommendations). I wanted to shop local because I don't want all my retail experiences to be online and I think it is important to support small retailers. I also wanted to get the transaction done quickly - another basic error.

    My impression of the young assistant was that he probably did not intentionally mislead me - he didn't seem bright enough - the receipt he 'hand-crafted' suggests he spend more time in his youth cycling rather than reading Machiavelli. He was able to explain lucidly the difference between a flat bar road bike and hybrid (I had researched this) but was unable to copy my name off a payment card.

    I will have a chat with the manager and see what he says about it all. I would really like to continue to use the shop for servicing etc. as I have done in the past with other LBS. If he can offer something as goodwill, I will happily leave it.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,444
    N5girl wrote:
    Ok thanks for all the advice. No one likes to be made to feel like a fool and I think probably it is my pride which is hurting more than anything.

    I thought I had done enough research - albeit I had not written down the colours of the various models and years. In future the key thing to do is to walk out of the shop - go have a cup of tea and spend 20 mins on the 'net researching what you have just been told. This is definitely something I normally do at the big bike sheds - however I naively thought I could trust this LBS (because of the recommendations). I wanted to shop local because I don't want all my retail experiences to be online and I think it is important to support small retailers. I also wanted to get the transaction done quickly - another basic error.

    My impression of the young assistant was that he probably did not intentionally mislead me - he didn't seem bright enough - the receipt he 'hand-crafted' suggests he spend more time in his youth cycling rather than reading Machiavelli. He was able to explain lucidly the difference between a flat bar road bike and hybrid (I had researched this) but was unable to copy my name off a payment card.

    I will have a chat with the manager and see what he says about it all. I would really like to continue to use the shop for servicing etc. as I have done in the past with other LBS. If he can offer something as goodwill, I will happily leave it.

    Look, some people bought the bike they were supposed to buy and the frame cracked... 3 months later they got a replacement, which also cracked, another three months later they got another replacement, but a different model, as the previous was no longer available and the newer one was beige. I would have no problem whatsoever with a 2 years old bike... spending two years on the shop floor didn't make it into a censored ... it's just our obsession for the "latest model" that stands in the way, but bicycles are not computers or smart phones that after two years are obsolete and maybe worth a penny or a full pound in Mozambique. Chances are the 2014 differs from the 2012 for a different paint scheme and a lesser chain set
  • gloomyandygloomyandy Posts: 520
    Look..... Chances are the 2014 differs from the 2012 for a different paint scheme and a lesser chain set

    Which is fine, if it is the case and if that is what the person that is selling to you explains to you (and what I would expect a good local bike shop to do). But if they tell you the bike is this years model and it is not, then it is not unreasonable to ask them why they told you that. It may be an honest mistake, it may not. It sounds like the OP wanted to establish a long term relationship with this shop, best to find out now if you will be happy dealing with them or not.
  • diydiy Posts: 6,680
    You asked where you stand legally. If they describe it as a 2014 model and it isn't then they have not supplied the bike matching the description, which gives you an unconditional right to reject the goods and get your money back.

    Personally I wouldn't see this as a mistake, even the most stupid of bike shop assistants should know what they are selling. Second, we all know these old stock 2 and 3 year old bikes do the rounds at silly prices between the trade.

    All the other comments about the 2014 model not being any better may be accurate, but at the end of the day when you come to sell it, you are flogging a 2 year old bike before you start. and every other 2013 or 2014 model is going to be competing.
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