Toughest sportive?

secretsam

(Surely the singular is sportif??)

Friends 'n' family have done the marathon thing for charideee, am tempted to do the cycling equivalent. And I need a challenge to try and get my lardy ar53 in shape.

So - what, in your opinion, are the toughest sportives in Britain???

marcusjb

Does it have to be a sportive?

Plenty of hard as nails Audax rides out there. Not just in distance (up to 1400km in the UK), but some ferociously hilly ones (some of even the 200km shorter ones can have 4000m+ of ascent). And, next year is of course the year of the daddy of them all - Paris Brest Paris 1200km (which actually is fairly straightforward as these things go (I wouldn't use the word easy though)).

However, for sheer difficulty, the 24 hour time trial is the very hardest thing I have done on a bike (and I only rode 375 miles). Next one in July 2015 if you fancied it. It really is the best way to destroy your mind and body in a short space of time.

DKay

Something a bit less He-Man is The Fred Whitton, although it's still a doozy.

imposter2.0

http://www.acycling.com/tours/the-monster/

norvernrob

http://darkwhitecycling.co.uk/peak-epic/

Peaks Epic is up there. 103 miles with 14 Categorised climbs and >13,000ft in total.

Me and a mate did some of it last weekend, the first 28 miles we climbed over 4,000ft. There was nothing massively steep (the full course includes Winnats which IS steep!) but the climbing was just relentless. You're often on top of the peaks and moors too, and unless you're lucky with the weather (we weren't, >30mph headwinds and horizontal rain!) it adds something else to fight against.

Escher303

Bowland Badass, 167 miles and 18500 feet of climbing. Makes some of the 100 mile sportives look a bit tame.

bjj.andy.w

Escher303 wrote:

Bowland Badass, 167 miles and 18500 feet of climbing. Makes some of the 100 mile sportives look a bit tame.

+1
Done both the Fred and the Baddass this year and although the Fred is undoubtably hard (Hardknott and Wrynose after 90miles anyone ?) the Baddass takes onto a whole new leval. Although you haven't got the shear hight of the lakes passes it's just relentless. Your either going up or down with very little flat sections to recover and/or push your av speed up.

t4tomo

Surely the Dragon Ride long route is the toughest out there?
187 miles and 11000ft plus of climbing ?

rolf_f

t4tomo wrote:

Surely the Dragon Ride long route is the toughest out there?
187 miles and 11000ft plus of climbing ?

Can't see it being in the same league as the Bowland Badass. It isn't even 100 feet per mile! I did The Beast of Bowland - only about as long as The Fred but about as hard. Another 50 miles of it would be gruesome. I should probably do it next year....

ugo.santalucia

Personally I don't really get the appeal of all these super macho "we are the toughest sportive in the UK". I just don't enjoy slogging at snail pace for 8-10 hours. For a good event you need a bit of balance and 2-3 big climbs with some flat in between are better than 25 small climbs with no flat in between. Horses for courses, I suppose, but I'm done with these things, they're just completely pointless... as soon as the toughest is on offer, someone else will come up with a tougher loop even more bonkers.
The Fred Whitton has a bit of prestige, being one of the first (if not the first) sportives in the UK, the others are just mock look-alike things and a pretty paltry name like "badass" reflects the lack of heritage...

There you go, I said it...

napoleond

If you're going to do one of these things do something like the Marmotte or the oetzahler radmarathon. Take the family along for a long weekend.

marcusjb

t4tomo wrote:

Surely the Dragon Ride long route is the toughest out there?
187 miles and 11000ft plus of climbing ?

I was pleased to see a longer sportive in Wales - it all helps grow long-distance cycling a bit - 300km is a great distance and very achievable by most club-riders; it is the perfect summer distance as it makes the most of the available daylight. However, I was amazed they managed to make it so flat! Barely over 3000m of ascent in over 300km. Really is pretty flat for the area.

Escher303 wrote:

Bowland Badass, 167 miles and 18500 feet of climbing. Makes some of the 100 mile sportives look a bit tame.

That is getting more like it. And a beautiful part of the world to ride in - I rode a 6 that finished with 2 or 3 tough climbs in bowland, but the views were superb. I may have to give it a go sometime for something a little different.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Personally I don't really get the appeal of all these super macho "we are the toughest sportive in the UK". I just don't enjoy slogging at snail pace for 8-10 hours. For a good event you need a bit of balance and 2-3 big climbs with some flat in between are better than 25 small climbs with no flat in between. Horses for courses, I suppose, but I'm done with these things, they're just completely pointless... as soon as the toughest is on offer, someone else will come up with a tougher loop even more bonkers.
The Fred Whitton has a bit of prestige, being one of the first (if not the first) sportives in the UK, the others are just mock look-alike things and a pretty paltry name like "badass" reflects the lack of heritage...

There you go, I said it...

And for each and every claim of the toughest, I can find you an Audax in the same area that takes in much more ascent.

But at the end of the day ascent isn't a good measure of 'toughness' (if it were just head over to the real mountains for some real ascent). The nature of the climbing makes such a difference - following the slightly bigger roads, the climbing can get you massive ascent, but more gradually (common in many welsh events I ride); whereas follow a coast road in the south-west (for example) and you'll never go above 150m, but you'll be up and down like a whore's drawers. It will usually be much more tiring than the long gradual ascending, and often considerably slower as you don't get as much opportunity to get the speed back on the downhills (as there are twisty and difficult).

nickellis

Tour of Flanders sportive?
15 climbs, cobbles, 22% max gradient, all in 135km (for the medium route). Or 245km if you want the full route.

robbo2011

AlpenBrevet Platinum tour. 276 km, 5 passes and 7031m of climbing.

Go on, you know you want to.

Like NapD said, take the family along and make a holiday of it.

secretsam

And there was me thinking that the Fred Whitton was tough...

ugo.santalucia

SecretSam wrote:

And there was me thinking that the Fred Whitton was tough...

There are a number of extreme challenges, but they are meant for nutters. A friend of mine did the Tour du Mont Blanc twice... kind of 17 hours on the saddle, 330 Km and something in the region of 8-9000 mt of climbing.
After doing that, he doesn't even bother training for the Marmotte, he just shows up with a thousand miles in his legs clocked between march and june and goes through the course without much trouble.

I think it's in the head more than it is in the legs. Start with something with 3 K of climbing and see how you like it. Then you can reassess where you stand and whether you enjoy it or not.

The FWC is dangerous... you get to the most technical part with 90 hard miles in your legs and you need a sharp mind to go down a 1/3 descent

Escher303

The Bowland Badass route was a club ride designed to take in as many of the Bowland hills in one ride as possible without repeating any stretches of road. The chief architect came up with the route a few years ago and challenged the A-riders to try it out and it was given the title Badass for a joke, it was never about designing the hardest route for the sake of it so as to claim the 'hardest UK sportive' title.

The club put it on as a sportive for two years as lots of locals wanted to ride it. I rode it one of those years and it was the cheapest, best organised, with the best feed stations organised ride I've done.

The route really is a work of genius. On a map it looks really convoluted but it rides superbly. It feels like a continuous loop, that does not back track or go over the same ground, 99% on very quiet roads with very little traffic amongst stunning scenery. It's overriding feature beyond the distance and amount of climbing is what an amazing continuous route it is, the country you pass through and how quiet the roads are. I don't think there is much else like it in the UK.

Of course it is very challenging but I would recommend it to anyone up for it. If you don't know Bowland you will be blown away. Even if you do know it it will show you the area in a brand new way.

It's very much not about being the hardest (even if it might be), but the quality of the route. It really is a cracker.

After two years it's not run as a sportive any more but there is sometimes an unofficial summer ride of it through word of mouth.

You can get the route here:- http://www.mapmyride.com/gb/garstang-en ... e-53815814

philbar72

The best “toughie” I’ve ever been on was Liege – Bastogne - Leige. Went away for a long weekend and it was really good.

Its got climbs, its got descents (some beautiful ones and a 5.5km decent to a nasty climb that is in one word “epic”). This year it was 174 miles and 15000 feet of climbing. I’m by no means a climber, but I found it spectacular. The weather was nice as well!

The other good one for different reasons was the tour of flanders. Brilliant fun.

As for uk sportives, I haven’t found one I really enjoyed. Need to do something welsh I think.

ugo.santalucia

philbar72 wrote:

As for uk sportives, I haven’t found one I really enjoyed. Need to do something welsh I think.

Same here... no atmosphere, you start in a car park, within 10 miles you're pretty much on your own in a country lane... you finish, you go home... best I've done in terms of scenery probably the Autumn Epic in mid Wales... the Elan Valley is a real gem

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The Fred Whitton has a bit of prestige, being one of the first (if not the first) sportives in the UK, the others are just mock look-alike things and a pretty paltry name like "badass" reflects the lack of heritage...

Ugo - if you aren't careful you'll become a grumpy old curmudgeon!

It is a crap name but I've done the Fred so don't need to again (at least not soon) and The Bowland Badass looks to me like a nice tough challenge on fairly local roads that I've done often enough in part. So what's wrong with it?

I'm never convinced about the idea that just because someone has had a good idea that it can't be applied to other locations. Nobody is forced to do them. And even the oldest of things were new once. "Heritage" is earned over time. If you never have anything new, in time you'll never have anything old!

It's a shame if the Badass isn't being run as a Sportive anymore as it's the sort of thing that would be best done with the benefit of the feedstations.

PS Re Fred - Hardknott descent isn't really any more dangerous after 90 miles than on fresh legs. IMO Wrynose is worse as it is more deceptive. But in reality, people seem to crash on the Fred descents reasonably consistently - Kirkstone, Honister, Hardknott, Wrynose all seem to be equally visited by the helicopter..... I think Honister is the most dangerous.

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

It's a shame if the Badass isn't being run as a Sportive anymore as it's the sort of thing that would be best done with the benefit of the feedstations.

Maybe that's the problem... when you build a reputation around being the "toughest" eventually you restrict the audience to a few nutters who want to cycle 170 miles up and down. Too many events try to be the ultimate challenge and not enough try to be something more than an enlarged loop around a car park in the middle of nowhere.
Too many anonymous events, I can't recall doing any in the UK more than once, which says it all... given I've travelled to Gaiole for the Eroica three times and done the Paris-Roubaix cyclo twice.

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

It's a shame if the Badass isn't being run as a Sportive anymore as it's the sort of thing that would be best done with the benefit of the feedstations.

Maybe that's the problem... when you build a reputation around being the "toughest" eventually you restrict the audience to a few nutters who want to cycle 170 miles up and down. Too many events try to be the ultimate challenge and not enough try to be something more than an enlarged loop around a car park in the middle of nowhere.
Too many anonymous events, I can't recall doing any in the UK more than once, which says it all... given I've travelled to Gaiole for the Eroica three times and done the Paris-Roubaix cyclo twice.

Well, reputation is marketing and how better a place would the world be without marketing?! Still, C2C in a day has sprung up from nowhere and seems to be doing fairly well with quite a range in abilities giving it a go - and that's despite the logistical complexities of it.

To be fair, I do agree with you re not repeating routes. I've yet to do a sportive more than once and have little desire to. I don't see the point. Maybe I would if they were more European in style. I think the Eroica is a bit of an unfair example though - that's clearly rather more than a simple sportive!

NapoleonD wrote:

If you're going to do one of these things do something like the Marmotte or the oetzahler radmarathon. Take the family along for a long weekend.

I'd be tempted to do the Marmotte but reports always make it sound like a miserable mix of traffic jams of thousands of cyclists and plenty of crashes caused by incompetent riding. If I wanted to experience that, I'd save some money and do L2B or the London Ride 100! I prefer quieter roads.

Escher303

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Maybe that's the problem... when you build a reputation around being the "toughest" eventually you restrict the audience to a few nutters who want to cycle 170 miles up and down. Too many events try to be the ultimate challenge and not enough try to be something more than an enlarged loop around a car park in the middle of nowhere.
Too many anonymous events, I can't recall doing any in the UK more than once, which says it all... given I've travelled to Gaiole for the Eroica three times and done the Paris-Roubaix cyclo twice.

As I said it was never designed to be the toughest but a route that linked up all the hills on the clubs locals patch. It only ever became a sportive as some locals wanted to do it too. It was never a commercial enterprise either, entry fee was £10, I expect they lost money. They stopped doing it because of the stress of organising it and not because it only attracted "a few nutters".

Some of the best events are local club organised where enthusiasts want to share their local roads often not for profit or for charity. Not to be confused with commercial outfits trying to outdo each other.

FWIW the day I rode the Badass was amongst my best days out on a bike. I like a good hard hilly ride for sure, but that doesn't mean these events are silly because they aren't your sort of thing.

Personally the massive crowds at big European events really put me off, the social/festival thing just isn't my cup of tea. Each to their own and I'm happy to know that lots of others prefer a massive event with a big atmosphere. Just because that's not what I want to do doesn't mean I write off others with different tastes as 'nutters'.

My sort of thing is hard and hilly but quiet with few entrants. I might do a couple of those a year but ride many more of the same quality on my own or with a mate. Each to their own I say.

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

To be fair, I do agree with you re not repeating routes. I've yet to do a sportive more than once and have little desire to. I don't see the point. Maybe I would if they were more European in style. I think the Eroica is a bit of an unfair example though - that's clearly rather more than a simple sportive!

If I found an event worth repeating, I would... I mulled over the Autumn Epic a few times, as it's very pretty and not overly subscribed... the range of cocxs also seems pretty limited, but in the end you also have to factor in a rather forgettable night away from home featuring some pretty terrible food, 7-8 hours drive in total and it all doesn't seem to add up.

But hey oh... on the plus side, next year Gent-Wevelgem, squeezed between not one but two PRO races... E3Prijs Harelbeke the day before and th G-W the day after...

ugo.santalucia

Escher303 wrote:

As I said it was never designed to be the toughest but a route that linked up all the hills on the clubs locals patch. It only ever became a sportive as some locals wanted to do it too. It was never a commercial enterprise either, entry fee was £10, I expect they lost money. They stopped doing it because of the stress of organising it and not because it only attracted "a few nutters".

Some of the best events are local club organised where enthusiasts want to share their local roads often not for profit or for charity. Not to be confused with commercial outfits trying to outdo each other.

FWIW the day I rode the Badass was amongst my best days out on a bike. I like a good hard hilly ride for sure, but that doesn't mean these events are silly because they aren't your sort of thing.

Personally the massive crowds at big European events really put me off, the social/festival thing just isn't my cup of tea. Each to their own and I'm happy to know that lots of others prefer a massive event with a big atmosphere. Just because that's not what I want to do doesn't mean I write off others with different tastes as 'nutters'.

My sort of thing is hard and hilly but quiet with few entrants. I might do a couple of those a year but ride many more of the same quality on my own or with a mate. Each to their own I say.

I get your point, but you are local. The question is whether you would travel 300 miles for that...
My point is that I have never done a UK event that was worth doing again (for me, obviously). I'd like to do the FWC, but my knees tend to pack up after 2-3 K of climbing and the idea of spending the following month doing physio is not that appealing... In my books when you go over 3 K of climbing, that's an exceptional amount of climbing... the problem (for me) is the number of events in beautiful locations that seem to pack up 4 or more K of climbing, whereas if you want a less demanding sportive to get the chance of riding in the Lake District, well, tough luck!

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I get your point, but you are local. The question is whether you would travel 300 miles for that...

God no. I've not travelled far to any sportive (though if I lived in the home counties I probably would). Generally, I can't be bothered if I can't get out and back and do the ride all on the same day! If there was a club desire to go away and do a certain event, then I would do it.

I could see myself doing something like Eroica but then that would be to do more than the event itself.

And yes, if there was a standout event somewhere in the UK (aside from the Fred) where there was a chance of plenty of spectator induced atmosphere, then I might travel for it but so far there is only the utterly unappealing Ride 100 and I'd rather have root canal treatment than do that!

As mentioned already somewhere, there are of course audaxes - the thinking mens sportives. I'll probably do more of those in future.

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

... the problem (for me) is the number of events in beautiful locations that seem to pack up 4 or more K of climbing, whereas if you want a less demanding sportive to get the chance of riding in the Lake District, well, tough luck!

Actually tricky to plan but there are some slightly softer Lakes sportives - I seem to recall one or two that head up from N Lancs towards Coniston and Kendal and miss all of the big climbs. But anything that does the Northern half of the lakes is going to struggle not to total quite a lot in the end. For example, you can go from Ambleside to Wrynose, Hardknott, Cold Fell and then over Whinlatter and back via Ullswater and that's not too bad but it's hard to resist skipping Whinlatter for the far more interesting Honister if you are organising an event!

Escher303

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I get your point, but you are local. The question is whether you would travel 300 miles for that...
My point is that I have never done a UK event that was worth doing again (for me, obviously). I'd like to do the FWC, but my knees tend to pack up after 2-3 K of climbing and the idea of spending the following month doing physio is not that appealing... In my books when you go over 3 K of climbing, that's an exceptional amount of climbing... the problem (for me) is the number of events in beautiful locations that seem to pack up 4 or more K of climbing, whereas if you want a less demanding sportive to get the chance of riding in the Lake District, well, tough luck!

Yep, fair point, I see where you are coming from too.

Fortunately I'm lucky that I don't have to travel and get to do 100 milers with 3000m of climbing most weekends in the Dales, Lakes, Lancs, North Pennines etc. but they are all right on my doorstep and it's what I enjoy doing. But, as you say, that amount of climbing regurlarly is not what most people want to be doing.

Whether or not I would travel if I still lived in the South East I couldn't say but I am very glad I don't have to. I expect I wouldn't ever have got into those sort of routes as I've only got really into road cycling since I moved to the North West and probably never would've known that that sort of riding is what I like doing.

I do fancy doing an LBL, PR or Flanders sportive one day, but the bigness of each event does put me off. Whereas that probably is the big attraction for others.

To further the discussion though, it seems to me that what qualifies are single day routes that are actually interesting rather than tough for the sake of it so the Fred, Etape du Dales, Le Terrier, Dragon ride etc are the typical tough 100 milers, with something like the Bowland Badass and a couple of others beating them on length and ascent but still are continuous routes that are not contrived. On the continent I imagine it has to be the routes based on the toughest races? So PR, LBL. la Marmotte and Flanders.

Escher303

Rolf F wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Actually tricky to plan but there are some slightly softer Lakes sportives - I seem to recall one or two that head up from N Lancs towards Coniston and Kendal and miss all of the big climbs. But anything that does the Northern half of the lakes is going to struggle not to total quite a lot in the end. For example, you can go from Ambleside to Wrynose, Hardknott, Cold Fell and then over Whinlatter and back via Ullswater and that's not too bad but it's hard to resist skipping Whinlatter for the far more interesting Honister if you are organising an event!

Wrynose or bust? http://wrynose.org/wrynose-or-bust/

ugo.santalucia

Rolf F wrote:

As mentioned already somewhere, there are of course audaxes - the thinking mens sportives. I'll probably do more of those in future.

Which are value for money but have even less appeal... I have done a faw local ones (Boulters Bash rings a bell) and of course I have the Brevet Randonneur badge "Raid Pyrenean", although we did that 5 star with support etc... so not in the true Audax spirit..

Maybe that's something the OP should consider... the "raid pyrenean" is a truly compelling adventure on two wheels!

ugo.santalucia

Escher303 wrote:

I do fancy doing an LBL, PR or Flanders sportive one day, but the bigness of each event does put me off. Whereas that probably is the big attraction for others.
.

The RVV is massive, but there is a PR ran every other year by the Roubaix Velo club, which is basically what we would call an Audax, but it's fully signed and worth every penny.... not huge, probably 3,000 people, but no cocxs on Zipp wheels and full Sky kit and nonsense like that but very spread out... we did it last June... highly recommended if you enjoy physical pain...

The guy on the shopping bike would then pass me on the Carrefour de l'Arbre, which was very annoying indeed