A couple of questions from an MTB'er to Road Bikers?

steg666

Hi guys,

I've been using my MTB on-road far too much, to the point that I'm getting a road bike once I can get my cycle to work scheme discount again.

I was out today on the MTB again today but 'on road'. As I was cycling along a few things crossed my mind.

1 - Head winds! What a *^+= they are! Really took it out of me today! As I rode in baggy shorts and a waterproof coat I wasn't exactly aerodynamic. Any tips for combatting headwinds? Or do you plan a route to avoid them if possible?

2 - Average speed, I'm always thinking when my cateye is telling me I'm going at say 15mph, "I wonder how fast I'd be going for the same effort on a road bike". Anyone ever tried this or experimented with it?

Thank guys.

kajjal

I did the same last year and now do MTB and road biking which helps both.

On a road bike once you clear about 15mph aerodynamics really has an impact. I used to ride in a baggy coat, baggy shorts and a baggy T Shirt. It made me like a 6ft6 wind break. Changed to a close fitting jacket & jersey and also Lycra shorts (bit of a change as MTBing does not encourage Lycra !) , found it much easier going and faster.

A well setup road bike also helps as unlike MTBing you spend more time in one position and efficient , smooth power delivery is helpful for speed and avoiding injury.

The difference in speed between my road bike and my hardtail XC MTB is very noticeable. It is hilly and also has gusty winds where I ride on road. I could only maintain my road bike cruising speed for about 6 miles on my mountain bike before I dropped off the road shattered. On a road bike I can keep that speed up for hours. The big killers are big knobbly tyres, suspension and the weight of the bike.

steg666

I know what you mean about comparison to the wind break. I felt that today. I'd have been better off sailing a river the amount of resistance my coat was givin me .

Another thing that crossed my mind, I rarely (if ever) see road bikers carrying backpacks/camelbaks for hydration.

Is this another aerodynamic boost to a road rider? I'll blast my way through a 1.5 litre camelbak bladder in a few hours. Does adding a couple of water bottles/cages counter this by adding weight to the bike though?

markhewitt1978

I was out on my road bike today suffering in the wind. Everyone else on my Strava was complaining about it too.

Can't do much about it except plan your route so you set out into the wind so when you're tired on your way home it'll be at your back.

kajjal

I wouldn't worry too much about weight, most riders main excess weight is on themselves. I would guess the main reason road bikers tend not to have ruck sacks is they have less to carry so it fits on the bike or in jersey rear pockets.

simon_masterson

steg666 wrote:

I know what you mean about comparison to the wind break. I felt that today. I'd have been better off sailing a river the amount of resistance my coat was givin me .

Another thing that crossed my mind, I rarely (if ever) see road bikers carrying backpacks/camelbaks for hydration.

Is this another aerodynamic boost to a road rider? I'll blast my way through a 1.5 litre camelbak bladder in a few hours. Does adding a couple of water bottles/cages counter this by adding weight to the bike though?

Ironically, bladder packs aren't allowed in pro road cycling because they can improve aerodynamics! They were banned in the '90s if I recall, along with other (very stupid looking) hump-like fairing devices some time triallists toyed with. For everyone else, I think it's a combination of being unfashionable and uncomfortable in a flat backed position (and they impede access to pockets). Backpacks in general aren't ideal for road cycling, and there's generally another way to carry your stuff on your bike.

But weight is a very, very minor factor in cycling, in terms of actual performance - the majority of your effort goes into pushing air out of the way unless climbing a steep hill, and the vast majority of your frontal area on the bike is your body and positioning (as opposed to the bike). The fact that a full 750ml weighs around a kilo puts the few grams that some fret over into perspective!

Initialised

steg666 wrote:

1 - Head winds! What a *^+= they are! Really took it out of me today! As I rode in baggy shorts and a waterproof coat I wasn't exactly aerodynamic. Any tips for combatting headwinds? Or do you plan a route to avoid them if possible?

Today I actually planned my route to ensure the headwind coincided with a lot of climbing. Unfortunately I forgot how badly crosswinds can mess up descents so didn't get to surf the tailwind much on the way back down. So when wind is high plan a route straight into the wind and straight back to avoid dangerous crosswinds.

For the last week I've had a pretty bad headwind on the way home every night. Normally I only assume the tuck on longish descents but I found that by tucking I could maintain a closer to normal pace. You can do it to an extent on an MTB if you have bar extenders.

markhewitt1978

Initialised wrote:

Today I actually planned my route to ensure the headwind coincided with a lot of climbing. Unfortunately I forgot how badly crosswinds can mess up descents so didn't get to surf the tailwind much on the way back down. So when wind is high plan a route straight into the wind and straight back to avoid dangerous crosswinds.
.

Whereas I took the opposite approach, figured that it would be easier to battle out through the headwind on the flat, so along the Tyne, and have the benefit of the wind at my back when I was doing the hills home.

bobmcstuff

Simon Masterson wrote:

The fact that a full 750ml weighs around a kilo puts the few grams that some fret over into perspective!

750ml of water weighs exactly 750g (or as near as makes no difference unless you have lab equipment). I suppose that does round up to a kilo

markhewitt1978

If you assume that the bottle weighs 250g then it weighs 1kg, otherwise it doesn't

bobmcstuff

That would be quite a heavy bottle... I just couldn't resist the urge to be pedantic!

markhewitt1978

Well it's not pedantic, 750ml isn't approximately 1 litre however you look at it

simon_masterson

bobmcstuff wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

The fact that a full 750ml weighs around a kilo puts the few grams that some fret over into perspective!

750ml of water weighs exactly 750g (or as near as makes no difference unless you have lab equipment). I suppose that does round up to a kilo

I don't usually carry my water loose, though - I find a bottle makes things easier.

(Last I weighed one of mine on the kitchen scales, it was certainly the best part of a kilo when full of water. I forget exactly how close)

funkyg

steg666 wrote:

Another thing that crossed my mind, I rarely (if ever) see road bikers carrying backpacks/camelbaks for hydration.

The only real reason I stopped using mine is because the straps were rubbing under my arms and causing my softshell jacket to bobble.

homers_double

steg666 wrote:

Another thing that crossed my mind, I rarely (if ever) see road bikers carrying backpacks/camelbaks for hydration.

Apparently it just isn't the done thing.

Take £1 with you and buy a bottle from a shop enroute, much cheaper than committing a fashion faux pas.

ai_1

For me bottles versus backpack resevoir is nothing to do with what's the "done thing". Bottles just make more sense for me. I generally use bottles on the bike frame but I do own an 11L rucksack with a hydration resevoir which I've worn in a few adventure races where you're required to carry your running shoes and some safety equipment with you. Cycling with a rucksack isn't a huge chore but I much prefer riding without one. They cut down ventialtion to your back (massively if they're solid backed, quite a lot if they have some back ventialtion like mine, and I assume it's still noticable if they're the mesh backed stand-off type). Also I don't like having weight on my back or shoulders while riding. I'm just more comfortable without a backpack. There's also the problem mentioned earlier, that a rucksack makes it impossible to use jersey pockets. If you want to access food or anything else while on the move, you'll need accessible pockets on the backpack. Mine can carry some gels and cereal bars in the waist strap pockets and shoulder gel holders but there's nowhere simple to put a windstopper/raincoat, etc.
However, none of these reasons is a showstopper so if you don't mind wearing one there's no reason why you shouldn't!

Wind - If your road bike position is more aerodynamic than your MTB position, which it should be, then you'll suffer less in the wind. But it'll still slow you down lots. Use the hoods as much as you can to get lower on headwind legs if you're trying to go fast. If you're training it doesn't really matter physically how fast you're going, just how much effort you're putting in, although psychologically it sure makes a difference.

Average speed - A roadbike should put you in a more aerodynamic position and will be equipped with slick or near slick tyres. These are the two bike related variables with most effect on average speed. How big the difference when you move to a road bike will depend greatly on your current mountain bike setup. If you use big chunky nobbly tyres on the MTB then you'll notice a big difference in comfort and speed straight away when you change. If you already use road tyres on the MTB the change will be much smaller but you'll still get the benefit of the aerodynamic improvement. If your MTB position is very upright and road bike position very flat the difference will be much greater than if you go from an aggressive MTB position to a relaxed road bike position.

BLW

I fit into this catagory

Althought I'm still a MTB'er.

Average speed on my MTB (when just using it on the roads, same area as my RB) is around 12mph when there is a bit of wind and not pushing it, fastest average during the same flat route, around 21mph. Average speed on my RB (unfortuantely it's not a lightweight carbon bike) is around 16mph during a 25-30 miler, max speeed usually averages at 26mph on the same route.

Don't retire your MBT though just because your gettng a RB, keep using it, it will benefit you when you are using your RB, you'll be suprised how fit you'll be (or will be if you continue using it) than if you stopped and started only using your RB.

I use my MTB off road on weekends on the trails (usually Sundays) and try to do one mid week 'pedal like hell' on the roads with it, then use my RB mid week and do a long stint on it at the weekend on the day I'm not climbing through forests

I found a big difference in my fitness and stamina when I stopped using my MTB for 'road use' in the week, use both and it will benefit both.