Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod click

nickkiwi
nickkiwi Posts: 20
edited September 2014 in Workshop
Hi all,

I'm keen to get some resolution on this nasty click that occurs on my SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD. It's worsened over the last 5 months and now I basically don't want to ride it until it's fixed because it's so frustrating!!

Some info for context:
2012 Cannondale SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD
Sram Red
Edge Composite 44mm w/ DT-240s
Mavic skewers

I've had the LBS look it over four times with no fix. Replaced Pressfit BB bearings, Loctite 641'd the BB (http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12977963, new pedals. I've checked skewers, seat post, torque on crank arms, pedals, nothing. Happens with Ksryium Elite wheels too.

How about this - I have a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih5j5D3N-Xs

This video shows me pressing down hard on the cranks - not the pedals. If I press down on the non-drive side crank, same sound. The sound if you listen really carefully seems to come from the chain stays but sounds in carbon frames can be pretty deceiving I've heard. I've looked over the stays, BB shell with a torch and can't find any cracks...

Any ideas? Thanks in advance fellas, appreciate it.

Comments

  • barrie h
    barrie h Posts: 102
    When you press down where are you holding the bike ? try a helper holding the frame in a differant place

    Barrie
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,890
    ideas of varying quality...

    are you holding the seat post or saddle as you load it? easy to eliminate if you ride out of the saddle and it still clicks

    try putting a block under the bb so that you can apply load with either front or rear or both wheels off the ground, might help localise it

    does the frame have a metal insert in the bb shell? if it has delaminated it could get noisy

    check chainring bolts are tight

    remove chain, clip in, stand on pedals so you can load crank arms and shift weight, do it against a wall or in a doorway to avoid comedy fall

    did you grease the spindle before inserting into bearings? is there any sign of wear on the spindle at the points where it sits in the bearings?

    if you remove the crankset, with no pedals, wedge one crank in something chunky, load the other crank, see if it clicks
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    Hi Barrie, thanks for the reply. I've held the bike in many different places when press down making it click, least of all while I'm on the road pedalling. In all cases I get the clicking sound. I've tried loosening off the seat post, removing and tightening the skewers. It happens when pulling up on the pedals as well as pushing down on my road test. It happens out of the saddle and on the saddle. In every case the sound is consistent.

    Chainring bolts are my next look :-) Having troubles getting these chainring bolts off though.

    Any more ideas?
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    Sungod, thank you, I'll try and report back :-)
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    I've just tried pressing down hard on the crank while also pressing down hard on the other crank thus not loading up the drivetrain (crank bolts, chain, bottom bracket). No click!

    I'm going to remove these chainring bolts and tighten them. They are Loctited in I believe as they're so hard to undo. I'm worried about stripping the bolts.

    Edit: Chainring bolts are not going anywhere, cannot undo them. I assume that means they're tight enough!? Tried hex keys on both side together, no movement. I suspect my LBS super-tightened them with Loctite
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,890
    if the chainring bolts can't be undone that's not good, it doesn't necessarily mean they're tight enough, threadlock can hold a loose bolt too

    i'd try getting them undone, also gives you a chance to inspect the spider for any sign of a crack

    acetone may help release threadlock, it flashes off fast so may take some ingenuity to keep the area saturated and give it a chance to seep in
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    Sungod, I've just managed to get them off with my torque wrench - my allen keys didn't cut it. I... forgot I just bought the torque wrench, god they're good.

    So with the chainrings off, I'm loading up the cranks while they're at 6pm and no clicking. I've tested both drive-side and non-drive-side. The click appears to be when the drivetrain is loaded up. Hoping it's the chainring bolts... :) Thanks again
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    No luck I'm afraid, the same old clicking :( Big overhaul today, new chain, chainring bolts out and back in (minus one though, as one snapped), same clicking.

    In response to your suggestions:
    are you holding the seat post or saddle as you load it? easy to eliminate if you ride out of the saddle and it still clicks
    Tried holding at many different places and with seat removed, I can't get it not to click.
    try putting a block under the bb so that you can apply load with either front or rear or both wheels off the ground, might help localise it
    Haven't been able to achieve this one.
    does the frame have a metal insert in the bb shell? if it has delaminated it could get noisy
    No, it looked like carbon, almost like it was just the frame with no other attachments.
    check chainring bolts are tight
    Done... I may have done one of them too tight :oops: I will get another bolt...
    remove chain, clip in, stand on pedals so you can load crank arms and shift weight, do it against a wall or in a doorway to avoid comedy fall
    No click! It seems as though once the chain is connected and the whole drive train is loaded up then it clicks. Also managed to get it not to click by loading both cranks at once with the main on. Not sure why that is...
    did you grease the spindle before inserting into bearings? is there any sign of wear on the spindle at the points where it sits in the bearings?
    Plenty of grease and Loctite 641. No signs of wear whatsoever.
    if you remove the crankset, with no pedals, wedge one crank in something chunky, load the other crank, see if it clicks
    No click!

    At this point, I'm going to take it to a Cannonade specialist. I clearly am no expert and my attempted have failed but it has been into the shop many times to have the same thing remedied with no luck. I'm thinking it potentially is the BB shell tolerance slightly out... but yeah, I'm pretty stumped.

    Any more ideas?
  • adamfo
    adamfo Posts: 763
    Have you tried turning the bike upside down ?

    Clicks often come from the headset and travel down the down tube. Try the forks out.
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    adamfo wrote:
    Have you tried turning the bike upside down ?

    Clicks often come from the headset and travel down the down tube. Try the forks out.
    I have turned it upside down, I usually do to work on it. Clicks still happen then.

    I haven't looked at the headset or forks yet - thank you. I cannot see how it possibly could be that given all my experimentation... but I still have the click right. I'll check it out and report back.
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    Update

    It's in at the Cannondale dealer and they're stumped. They reckon it's the bottom bracket or in that area.

    Inside the bottom bracket shell they've found a layer of carbon starting to fray/separate and they wonder if it's that... in any case they don't reckon that's normal. Also I noticed that on both sides of the bottom bracket shell, the round opening isn't round for about 2cm, it goes a bit oval if that makes any sense. They're investigating further and getting their warranty guy onto it to see if they need to send it off to Cannondale.

    I rode my lovely 2006 dura-ace Raleigh to the shop to see them... I'm honestly not sure if the Cannondale is an upgrade or downgrade...

    I'll keep you all posted, wish me luck
  • tom3
    tom3 Posts: 287
    I had similar clicks on a caad10. I removed a frame mounted pump to cure one click and oddly enough the second was the saddle not tightened up on the rails or levelled correctly. It was strangely resulting in a bb area click.

    It probably wont work for you but thought I would share
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    tom3 wrote:
    I had similar clicks on a caad10. I removed a frame mounted pump to cure one click and oddly enough the second was the saddle not tightened up on the rails or levelled correctly. It was strangely resulting in a bb area click.

    It probably wont work for you but thought I would share

    Thanks tom3, all advice welcome and appreciated. In my experimentation I removed bottle cages and seat tube altogether and the clicking remained - that should discount those two as being possible sources
  • nickkiwi
    nickkiwi Posts: 20
    Update

    Just got a call from the shop. They tried replacing the bottom bracket and chainset again, still was clicking. The mechanic has spent a lot of time doing everything he knows and still the problem remained so he very thoroughly inspected the frame... and found a crack in the chain stay :shock: My jaw is still dropped! I haven't seen photos of this crack but when I do I'll upload them. In hunting for the click I did look at the frame and couldn't find anything so I'm super keen to see where it is - I just mustn't have looked hard enough.

    Where does that leave me? I'm sending in my proof of purchase and they'll get it back to Cannonade and we'll see what happens from there. Might be a long journey but I'll keep you posted.
  • Update

    It's been three weeks since my last post and I'm pleased to say the problem has been solved.

    The frame was making this noise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih5j5D3N-Xs
    The reason why is because the frame was cracked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rwn57fB6jo

    I got in touch with the store I bought it from (Rode in Point Chevalier, Auckland, NZ) and Tim, the owner, orchestrated the entire warranty claim process. I was sent the bike via Fedex Express to London UK (where I live) and it was rebuilt within a few days (by Evans Cycles, Fulham Broadway, London). It took two weeks from diagnosis to resolution and that involved three different countries and an expedited shipping service.

    What an exceptional experience this has been from all parties; Rode, Evans Cycles and Cannondale, I feel so compelled to give them props as all too often reviews are only after a negative experience.

    Thanks all for your help in getting to the bottom of this, much appreciated.

    The new bike:
    Mh8CQjv.jpg
  • Some companies do warranty very very well. Cannondale is obviously one. I've had similar good service from Scott in the past.

    Glad you all sorted. Nice bike. Can I have your wheels please?