Sram Force 11 vs Shimano Ultegra

davefox

Hi all, just wondering what people thought of the vs match between Force and Ultegra?

I know they all change gears front and back, and operate brakes, and all that. But how do they feel compared to one another, the way the operate, etc, etc.....

Thanks guys

Dave

8)

diamonddog

Both are really good it is down to which changing technique you prefer, for me it's the SRAM Force on one of my bikes. The front changing on Sram Force is far smoother than the Sram Rival on one of the other bikes I have.

I find the throw for changing up to the big ring on the Shimano bike I have too long, although it does change nice and smoothly.

bendertherobot

Why 10? That's quite hard to find now, particularly as a group set.

If you can run 11 that group set is superb.

davefox

bendertherobot wrote:

Why 10? That's quite hard to find now, particularly as a group set.

If you can run 11 that group set is superb.

Sorry yeah it was meant to be 11 not 10

davefox

What is the difference with shifting on the Sram to Shimano?

I've only ever used Shimano

bendertherobot

On Shimano the inner lever moves down the block, the brake lever moves back up. As you know.

With SRAM the Brake lever is fixed. There is one inner lever. You click it once to go down the block. To go back up the block you move it in the same direction but keep going. You can, like sweeping the brake lever on Shimano, move multiple gears the further you push.

It sounds complicated, but it isn't. It's just a different way of shifting.

Force 22 will be considerably lighter than Ultegra. Both will be lovely though.

If you're selecting a new group set on, for example, Merlin, SRAM goes to a 11-32 cassette with a medium cage, Shimano a 11-30 as I recall. Both are worthwhile options for bail outs.

davefox

bendertherobot wrote:

On Shimano the inner lever moves down the block, the brake lever moves back up. As you know.

With SRAM the Brake lever is fixed. There is one inner lever. You click it once to go down the block. To go back up the block you move it in the same direction but keep going. You can, like sweeping the brake lever on Shimano, move multiple gears the further you push.

It sounds complicated, but it isn't. It's just a different way of shifting.

Force 22 will be considerably lighter than Ultegra. Both will be lovely though.

If you're selecting a new group set on, for example, Merlin, SRAM goes to a 11-32 cassette with a medium cage, Shimano a 11-30 as I recall. Both are worthwhile options for bail outs.

Ah brilliant, thanks for clearing that up.

The other big difference seems to be the price, I can save about £300 by going with the Force 11!!! So add that to it being lighter, it seems like the way to go!

Guess I'll just have to give it a go and see how it feels.

bendertherobot

Ultegra is even cheaper than Force at Merlin
http://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-ult ... 62928.html

Bar Shaker

What is now Force was Red only a few years ago. You get lovely carbon cranks and brake levers, the best hoods and the double tap shifting system is the best mechanical system out there. It is silky smooth and light in operation. Plus you get a notable weight saving over Ultegra.

If Force was more expensive (within reason), I would still buy it.

bendertherobot

Bar Shaker wrote:

What is now Force was Red only a few years ago. You get lovely carbon cranks and brake levers, the best hoods and the double tap shifting system is the best mechanical system out there. It is silky smooth and light in operation. Plus you get a notable weight saving over Ultegra.

If Force was more expensive (within reason), I would still buy it.

I came from Red 2011 and now have Red (10) 2013.

I'd say Force is more current Red than older Red, particularly in the shape of the hoods and Yaw etc.

I'd also say that, if I didn't have Red and am a bit OCD about being complete, I'd buy Force.

Groupsets generally are bloody good value now mind. Particularly if you can spec your exact requirements on Merlin etc.

rolf_f

Bar Shaker wrote:

..........and the double tap shifting system is the best mechanical system out there.

Oooh - link me to the detailed and comprehensive independant review that proves this!

Tjgoodhew

I had the same choice and went with SRAM. Ultegra is just plain ugly.

I love the mechanical feel of double tap and the hood shapes suit my hands.

Force 22 can be a bit of pain to set up with the Yaw dérailleur but once its set the front shifting is lovely and smooth

kafkathedog

bendertherobot wrote:

Ultegra is even cheaper than Force at Merlin
http://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-ult ... 62928.html

And £490 at Ribble
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/gsd/road-track-bike/shimano-ultegra-6800-11-spd-double-groupset?part=GSSHIMULT680011D&sub=conf_GS_SHR&bike=1

mfin

davefox wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

On Shimano the inner lever moves down the block, the brake lever moves back up. As you know.

With SRAM the Brake lever is fixed. There is one inner lever. You click it once to go down the block. To go back up the block you move it in the same direction but keep going. You can, like sweeping the brake lever on Shimano, move multiple gears the further you push.

It sounds complicated, but it isn't. It's just a different way of shifting.

Force 22 will be considerably lighter than Ultegra. Both will be lovely though.

If you're selecting a new group set on, for example, Merlin, SRAM goes to a 11-32 cassette with a medium cage, Shimano a 11-30 as I recall. Both are worthwhile options for bail outs.

Ah brilliant, thanks for clearing that up.

The other big difference seems to be the price, I can save about £300 by going with the Force 11!!! So add that to it being lighter, it seems like the way to go!

Guess I'll just have to give it a go and see how it feels.

Go with Force 22, it's lighter, looks better, shifts more positively... and it doesn't look totally sh1t like ultegra either. If it's cheaper to have it on two bikes you are considering, even better! Hood shape on Sram used to be a bit crap, but the new stuff was re-designed so that now the shape you'll have is fantastic.

If you have only used shimano don't worry, you'll mostly adapt in minutes, and within a ride, it will be natural to you. Unless you are thick that is, which I'm sure you are not!

cattytown

On the subject of setup of F22, I found the front awkward. Until I watched the video from SRAM on youtube properly and it then went easily.

Paul.

StillGoing

The Yaw22 FD set up is only awkward because a 1/4 turn of the limit screw doesn't look as if it has done anything, so folks turn it a bit more until they see a tiny movement. By then they've adjusted the screw too much. The adjustment is minute and probably won't be seen with the eye. Bear this in mind and the FD set up is easy.

bendertherobot

kafkathedog wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Ultegra is even cheaper than Force at Merlin
http://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-ult ... 62928.html

And £490 at Ribble
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/gsd/road-track-bike/shimano-ultegra-6800-11-spd-double-groupset?part=GSSHIMULT680011D&sub=conf_GS_SHR&bike=1

No compacts

Bar Shaker

Rolf F wrote:

Bar Shaker wrote:

..........and the double tap shifting system is the best mechanical system out there.

Oooh - link me to the detailed and comprehensive independant review that proves this!

That's the only review you need, Rolf.

Oh, wait, I just remembered, you like systems with buttons in obscure, unreachable places

intheknowcycling.com

*Performance - both great, essentially same as you get with the DA and Red top tier groupsets
*Design - different, personal preference rule - ride them both to see how you like shifting method and feel of the shifters in your hands
*Quality - both good; make sure you have SRAM qualified service mechanics near you if you decide to go that way. Getting the FD 'YAW' installed right is important and not easy to the untrained mechanic.
*Cost - Ultegra is typically about 10% or so less; I regularly update comparative pricing from over 35 online stores and find Ultegra is consistently less

mfin

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

*Quality - both good; make sure you have SRAM qualified service mechanics near you if you decide to go that way.

You don't need SRAM trained service mechanics near you, that's rubbish. If you did need a mechanic as you're not mechanical yourself, it doesn't need to be a sram trained one, it's all very basic stuff.

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

Getting the FD 'YAW' installed right is important and not easy to the untrained mechanic.

Not true, dead easy, I'm not a trained mechanic by any means and have set two of them up perfectly in no time at all.

vortice

Honestly? There is absolutely nothing to choose between the two. It comes down to personal preference. I have 4 bikes - one each with 105, ultegra, Force and Red. I honestly couldn't say which one my favourite is.

opusover21

Having used both, both are very good. I think it all comes down to comfort with the shifters and double tap. Everything else is pretty equal imho

davefox

intheknowcycling.com - for the deal I can get myself, the Force 22 is working out at roughly £350 cheaper than Ultegra.

Everyone, thanks for your help on this, most people seem to think Force is the better way to go, and I am inclined to agree, so I am getting myself a demo bike to try it all out on over the weekend hopefully and will go from there!

bendertherobot

That's some deal! Ultegra is £550 at Merlin and Force £595.

Are you saying you're getting Force £350 less than the £550 Merlin Ultegra price?

davefox

It's not for a groupset on it's own, sorry if that's what everyone thought, it's for a full bike. The Force option is £362 cheaper than Ultegra

The rest of the bike is identical other than the full groupset, crankset are not included with groupset, that's another make.

bendertherobot

davefox wrote:

It's not for a groupset on it's own, sorry if that's what everyone thought, it's for a full bike. The Force option is £362 cheaper than Ultegra

The rest of the bike is identical other than the full groupset, crankset are not included with groupset, that's another make.

Ah, that makes sense! If all other things are equal, that's a much much better buy.

davefox

bendertherobot wrote:

davefox wrote:

It's not for a groupset on it's own, sorry if that's what everyone thought, it's for a full bike. The Force option is £362 cheaper than Ultegra

The rest of the bike is identical other than the full groupset, crankset are not included with groupset, that's another make.

Ah, that makes sense! If all other things are equal, that's a much much better buy.

Yes that's exactly my thoughts.

Apologies for any confusion caused.

8)

mfin

davefox wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

davefox wrote:

It's not for a groupset on it's own, sorry if that's what everyone thought, it's for a full bike. The Force option is £362 cheaper than Ultegra

The rest of the bike is identical other than the full groupset, crankset are not included with groupset, that's another make.

Ah, that makes sense! If all other things are equal, that's a much much better buy.

Yes that's exactly my thoughts.

Apologies for any confusion caused.

8)

Don't worry, it wasn't confusing at all, with common sense anyone would know you couldn't get the groupset on its own for £350 cheaper than Ultegra or everyone and his mum would be buying it.

Bosstanaka

Mix and match the 2...they work with each other fine

StillGoing

Bosstanaka wrote:

Mix and match the 2...they work with each other fine

Err no, the SRAM shifter and rear derailleur operation is totally different.

davefox

philthy3 wrote:

Bosstanaka wrote:

Mix and match the 2...they work with each other fine

Err no, the SRAM shifter and rear derailleur operation is totally different.

I would be inclined to agree, an educated guess to me would be that two competing companies would make it difficult to do anything but use their own specific kit.

From a bike build point of view, I'd prefer to use kit that's designed to work together, you'd not have any problems that way. Not to mention from an OCD perspective, it'd look a mess with different makes all over the place.

Keep it simple and straightforward! 8)