hydration and energy strategies for tired legs

markiegrim

I posted before about how I get v weak legs after ca. 35+ miles (quite hilly routes, 46 years old, but slim/fit-ish). No end of training seems to get me past this point

Eating a flapjack after 20 miles does not help

I'm now wondering if I need to do more than just drink plain water? Perhaps I need to add a hydration powder? Thinking that the dead legs may be down to a need for electrolyte replacement?

...or maybe energy drink (carbs) would be better?

As always, all advice v welcome

Markie

roux_guy

I'm a relative noob (2,800 miles over 15 months) but Personally I find I start running out of calories at 30-35 miles and find eating a great help. I don't normally use electrolytes but I bought some recently and find one tablet in a 750ml bottle helps on the extremely hot evenings we've been having recently where I get in a soggy, sweaty mess.

imposter2.0

markiegrim wrote:

No end of training seems to get me past this point

what kind of training?

Escher303

Do you give up after 35 miles when your legs get tired? If you regularly push through onto 50 it's going to hurt the first few times but once you've adapted 35 will feel easy.

What's a typical weeks riding for you?

markiegrim

Escher303 wrote:

Do you give up after 35 miles when your legs get tired? If you regularly push through onto 50 it's going to hurt the first few times but once you've adapted 35 will feel easy.

What's a typical weeks riding for you?

Typically I ride 2-3 hours on a Sunday morning and 1 hour on a middle week eve.

Reality is I usually only have time for a 35 mile ride, but at that point my legs are done for. I got as far as 45 miles and there was really no power left

I'd like to do the occasional sportive of up to 100 miles, but surely I cannot be alone in only finding 3-4 hours in a "typical week"? I thought that would still allow me to do the occasional longer rides...hence my thinking I should try some fancy salts in my water...or energy drinks rather than just flapjacks

But if the thinking is that its just down to needing to put in more hours..I may have to re-think!

imposter2.0

Because you haven't answered the question on what kind of 'training' you are doing, I'm guessing the factor you may be missing is the effort level - try riding a bit slower over longer distances.

chrisaonabike

If you eat before you ride, you aren't going to run out of energy after 35 miles. If you're slim and not a TdF rider, you probably burn about 500-600 calories an hour, which is less than you can store if you're only riding for a couple of hours or a bit more.

So it's not surprising that the flapjack doesn't fix it, and nor will a carb drink.

I doubt it's what you put in your drink either. You can try an electrolyte tablet, but I should think it's just a question of fitness.

If you only have time for 35 miles, you'll have to push much harder for those 35 miles a few times for the normal effort 35 to feel easier.

But as others have said, really it's further you need to do.

I've been riding for less than two years. When I started tackling 50 mile routes, it was really hard and I was knackered at the end. Now, when 85 miles feels perfectly doable, 50 seems like a stroll.

And I'm 52 in three months time.

Chogger

I'm still a newbie (only been riding since February) but I get a similar amount of time to ride as you. I've found for me doing 15-20 miles mid week and pushing as hard as I can, trying to get round as quickly as I can and 35-40 miles starting off steadily for the first 10-15 miles then picking up the pace and pushing on as I get warmed up seems to work best for me and has allowed me to ride a longer distance without tiring too much. I originally started out with 10 miles being the maximum I could ride and by doing the above I gradually have increased my distance and average speed.

markiegrim

Chogger wrote:

I'm still a newbie (only been riding since February) but I get a similar amount of time to ride as you. I've found for me doing 15-20 miles mid week and pushing as hard as I can, trying to get round as quickly as I can and 35-40 miles starting off steadily for the first 10-15 miles then picking up the pace and pushing on as I get warmed up seems to work best for me and has allowed me to ride a longer distance without tiring too much. I originally started out with 10 miles being the maximum I could ride and by doing the above I gradually have increased my distance and average speed.

Cheers for that - seems sound. I do push as hard as I can on my mid-week 20 mile-er, but perhaps should take a bit easier on the weekend 30+ mile-er

Still thinking regular sips of an energy drink throughout whole ride must help though. My Garmin reckons I burned 900 calories on a 1 hour ride!

Chogger

No worries like I say I just found this works for me. Good luck and hope you get the results you're after.

Escher303

Your Garmin is wrong, I very much doubt you are burning 900 cals an hour, they are notoriously inaccurate. And anyway you said eating makes no difference. To be blunt it sounds like you are just aren't fit enough. You said 'no end of training' made any difference yet you said you don't often ride more than 35 miles or 4 hours a week. That really isn't much training at all, certainly not 'no end of training'. If you are fit from other sports it won't necessarily translate to cycling, although you will likely progress faster than those who aren't fit at all.

If you could manage another 1 hour ride mid week that will make a difference as the gaps are quite large between rides so you'll be going backwards fitness wise a little each week. But you will also need to ride a bit further than you are comfortable with every now and then, then shorter distances will become easier. You have to overload your body to get it to adapt and therefore become fitter. Getting fitter is hard work, I don't think lack of energy drink is your issue. And to continue to make gains you need to progressively increase the amount you do, if you do the very same each week, the same miles at the same intensity you will simply plateau as your body is not getting extra stimulus. Another hour or two a week will definitely help and riding beyond your comfort zone more regularly will too.

markiegrim

Ouch! Brutal, but useful advice there!
I think what you say re another mid-week ride makes a lot of sense.
By "no end of training", I meant more specifically "riding 35 miles every weekend does not seem to make the 35 mile ride any easier" (i.e. not getting used to it). That said, I used to find 25 miles tough initially, but now find that fine.
Aside from a short weekly swim, I do no other exercise
Having said all that, maybe I am bing naive, but I assumed plenty of people enter even shorter sportives, infrequently, and without training any more than I am doing
Work+Family also = little time for cycling

imposter2.0

I would listen to Escher, especially as you don't seem interested in replying to any of my own comments. If all you ever do is ride 35 miles flat out, then it's no wonder your legs get tired towards the end. If you want useful training advice, you need to post useful info first.

Joeblack

Join a club, I suspect some of the perceived tiredness is mental, a club is a good idea for two reasons,

1 - You will ride at a quicker pace than your comfort zone because you will be driven by the group to go quicker and you can take turns on the front when you're feeling strong but then drop in when it's becoming a struggle allowing you to get stronger (think of it like having a spotter at the gym, the first few reps you do alone and then the last couple someone assists you)

2 - Being in a group and talking takes your mind off the effort your putting in and can allow you to forget the pain coming from your legs when they are feeling it.

Ultimately it's going to come down to riding more and committing to a proper training plan (intervals/hill repeats/sprints/long easy rides/short hard rides) if you really want to keep improving month by month. As someone above has said getting fitter/faster isn't easy, the initial improvement can be but eventually you need to really out in the effort and push yourself to take the next steps after that.

markiegrim

Imposter wrote:

I would listen to Escher, especially as you don't seem interested in replying to any of my own comments. If all you ever do is ride 35 miles flat out, then it's no wonder your legs get tired towards the end. If you want useful training advice, you need to post useful info first.

Why so narked? Re-read the post. I asked a specific q about nutrition, not training advice per se. However, I appreciate all the advice and it is clear what I need to do (as I already recognised in reply above). Your input was appreciated. Can't reply to each post though!

Jules Winnfield

Longer rides of much less effort (so you can at least speak in full sentences) is the only way to go to boost endurance. Do you train by feel or with a heart rate monitor? My fitness and performance came on in leaps and bounds once I started training "properly" with a HRM. Are you eating properly 2 hours before you ride? Are you carrying too much excessive weight?

Riding for 2-3 hours as fast as you can on a Sunday is doing nothing for you by the sounds of it and if you can't get past this 35 mile barrier then surely your motivation will wain.

homers_double

Reading some of these threads is interesting, my mid week rides are at 5.45am and are the same 35km loop, one direction or the other followed by a weekend 40-50 mile and I sometimes wonder if Ive stopped improving.

Would a mid week 15km blast be beneficial to my overall performance (if thats the right word for it...)?

holiver

Yeah if you are killing it for 15km it's gonna help no matter what.

chrisaonabike

markiegrim wrote:

I meant more specifically "riding 35 miles every weekend does not seem to make the 35 mile ride any easier" (i.e. not getting used to it). That said, I used to find 25 miles tough initially, but now find that fine.

I think you've answered your own question.

Riding 35 miles regularly makes 25 easy. You'll need to ride 50 miles regularly to make 35 easy. Or 35 regularly at very hard effort to make 35 easy at very low effort.

As I said, I was the same. 50 miles was hard, several times in a row. Then I just increased gradually, and it didn't get harder, I just found I could go further with the same effort (though longer time, obviously). 50 is easy now. But I've been training at 70-85 mile distances in preparation for the RL100.

It was the same last year. After the event, I did only shortish rides from Oct-Dec last year, and surprise surprise, 50 was hard again. I had to build up to more than that to make it easy.

markiegrim

Thanks Chris. You spell out what I need to do very well. I know it's obvious stuff; kind of hoped all I needed was more energy intake. Wishful thinking

Jules Winnfield

homers double wrote:

Reading some of these threads is interesting, my mid week rides are at 5.45am and are the same 35km loop, one direction or the other followed by a weekend 40-50 mile and I sometimes wonder if Ive stopped improving.

How long have you been riding? I have read in a magazine that you are still improving your fitness even after 5 years from first getting on a bike, so you shouldn't have hit any plateaus yet. Get 2 or 3 one hour rides in during the week if you can and start training using interval sessions.