Can you slap smaller jockey wheels on?

Manc33

I got an Alivio rear mech but because I have a 50T chainring and an 11-32T cassette, its hard to set it up because the Alivio rear mech has 13T jockey wheels, the B-tension was never right.

So I swapped to an ancient "Deore XT" mech circa 1990 and this one has 10T jockey wheels and works well, the B-tension is about half way out and its adjusted perfectly.

Now, I can't get cheap ceramic jockey wheels in a 10T but the 11T are dirt cheap (eBay, those GUB ones, £13.18 for two) so I wondered if the Alivio rear mech that currently has 13T jockey wheels on will take the 11T and work OK?

Thing is the Deore XT rear mech is about 3 or 4 groups above Alivio. The 11T ceramic jockey wheels won't fit on the old mech - Shimano have made sure they won't. :roll: Cheapest 10T ceramics are about 2.5 times the price of the 11T GUB ones.

The Rookie

The jockey wheel has got nothing to do with it, and an Alivio should cope fine with a 32t biggest sprocket (chainwheel size isn't relevant) so something in your setup was wrong.

Manc33

The Rookie wrote:

The jockey wheel has got nothing to do with it, and an Alivio should cope fine with a 32t biggest sprocket (chainwheel size isn't relevant) so something in your setup was wrong.

The Alivio has 13T jockey wheels, but because they are 13T they hit the biggest sprocket (32) in the lowest gear (with the B-tension screwed right in) and yet the old Deore XT one with 10T jockey wheels works fine. The B-tension is screwed about half way.

Alivio rear mechs are made to work with a 22-32-42 up front or 22-32-44, whereas I have a 28-39-50 up front. I think the gear range is the problem. I used to have 106 half links in the chain normally (30-39-50T with 12-25T cassette) and now I have 110 half links (28-39-59 with 11-32T cassette).

So think about it - when the chain is on the 28T up front and the 32T at the back, the chain is pretty slack and there's a lot of it, this means the swingarm of the mech is pulled back a bit more than it should be. Wow I think I answered it lol.

I'll just put the 11t jockey wheels on the Alivio and see if it works, its easier than having a debate about it on here.

I just wanted to know if a rear mech with 13T wheels on it can have 11T wheels put on and it will work.

Its pretty obvious if one has 13T jockey wheels that are hitting the biggest sprocket and one has 10T jockey wheels that don't, it is the cheap design of the Alivio to blame. Lets not forget the one with 10T jockey wheels is also a MTB rear mech. Its also really old but is 3 groups above Alivio.

Manc33

http://www.247cycleshop.com/shop/articl ... d%3D234%26

11T jockey wheels for the Alivio "M430" rear mech.

The M430 is marketed as "now 9 speed" but works with 8/7 speed.
The M410 is marketed as "8 speed" but works with 7 speed.

"The M430 is a whole 5mm lower profile than the M410 rear mech so it's less likely to get ambushed when it goes mountain biking."

Did they have complaints about the 13T jockey wheels rumbling on the biggest sprocket on the lowest gear so brought out the M430 with 11T jockey wheels?

Its all fine with MTB chainrings, its when you have a road chainset, 13T jockey wheels will rumble, 10T won't.

Why have they reduced the teeth on the jockey wheels from M410 to M430?

More to the point - why on Earth would any rear mech need 13T jockey wheels. All that does is puts the chain nearer the cassette.

I can't not put these ceramic ones on, they are GOLD. 8)

The old M730 has a far stronger spring than the Alivio M410 as well, so gear shifts should be lighter on the upshift. If the pedals turn that is.

Manc33

Sorry triple post.

This is a road mech but has 11t jockey wheels and apparently can cope with up to 32T

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... lsrc=aw.ds

Thing is if it "only just" copes with a 32T I don't like the sound of that.

Might just get some old used XTR one off eBay lol... its bound to be able to take a 34T or 36T and have those 11T jockey wheels.

Interesting that the Tiagra description says "32 tooth max with double chainset" as if to infer a triple would have too much chain slack in the lowest gear and the jockey wheel will touch even with the b-tension screwed right in. :P

This post pretty much explains everything and is what I found:
viewtopic.php?t=12921753&p=18314578#p18315246

The Rookie

Why would it imply that? The double triple issue is capacity and nothing to do with touching the biggest cassette.

Manc33

Slapped the jockey wheels on the Alivio and they seem to work fine.

My only issue now is the Alivio feels sloppy compared to the Deore XT.

Solution: Buy a new Deore XT 9-speed M772 rear mech (has 11T jockey wheels not 13T like the Alivio) for about £35 and slap the ceramic jockey wheels on that.

One bummer about that old Deore XT M730 mech is the barrel adjuster on the mech is really shallow, on newer mechs its like three times deeper and allows the housing to exit a lot better, at least on the Alivio that is the case over the 20+ year old Deore XT mech. Not that you can't just change a barrel adjuster, just saying. The Alivio spring is really weak.

nicklouse

So you have just reduced the capacity of a mech that is perfectly able to work with a 32T cassette.
It also has the capacity to do what you want. 45t stated. You have 43t.

Sounds like set up issues or might just be one of these stupid frames where the hanger is not quite in the correct place.

Manc33

nicklouse wrote:

So you have just reduced the capacity of a mech that is perfectly able to work with a 32T cassette.
It also has the capacity to do what you want. 45t stated. You have 43t.

Sounds like set up issues or might just be one of these stupid frames where the hanger is not quite in the correct place.

Well today I put on a new M772 mech and voila, it doesn't even have a b-tension screw on it at all (mech itself doesn't have one or need one) and it works.

For the first time ever on this setup, all 24 gears work.

I have got one hell of a gear range now, from 28F/32R lowest to 50F/11R highest.

The mech is a vast improvement over the older one and compared to the Alivio, don't even compare it lol.

Chunkers1980

Manc33 wrote:

Well today I put on a new M772 mech and voila, it doesn't even have a b-tension screw on it at all (mech itself doesn't have one or need one) and it works.

Well that's not true.

Your definition of 'it works' must be different to people who know.

CitizenLee

Far too much slapping going on in here :P