Zipp 303 owners view

opusver21
opusver21 Posts: 56
edited August 2014 in Road buying advice
Hi
Thinking of going with the Zipp 303 2014 model. I’d really appreciate zipp owners objective views on previous incarnations compared to the latest 2014 model i.e. the new lacing pattern, claimed improved stiffness etc

Is a new price of about 1600 justified over a 2012/13 pair of lets say near 1000 pounds used?

Leaving asides the issued with exploding hubs for now(!)

Cheers

Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Just to be clear: when Zipp introduced the 188 hub, they claimed the radial pattern on the drive side improved stiffness.
    When in the autumn of 2013 they reverted to the previous pattern, they claimed it improved stiffness

    So clearly one of the two statements is bullshxt
    left the forum March 2023
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Myself and my mate both run 2013 303 FC tubs and have put in thousands of miles on them. They've gone to the Alps, Mallorca and up and down a lot of steep stuff. They've been deployed for long distance (100+ rides) and been used for club TT's and hill climbs. They've been outstanding wheels.

    I'm around 65kg and he's a 6ft diesel engine who's about 80kg at his worst. He can make his rear wheel flex a bit when climbing but I can't.

    Both of us are still alive and well and no hubs have exploded.

    I took the original decals off mine and replaced them with the all black ones - they look damn cool ;-)
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    I own a pair of the 2012 clinchers.

    They are very fast and good all rounders but their hubs are odd, i keep having to adjust the front hub and have had the rear hub replaced and the wheel set up as 2 cross rear spokes setup. its a shame zipp just don't sell the rims by themselves as the rest of the componentry on their wheels is not up to the Rims high standard.
    my overall view is they are not worth what they sell for, by a long stretch. Compare them to my dura ace c50's and you get a slightly heavier but faster wheel for much less (it is less good at climbing but faster elsewhere).
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Just to be clear: when Zipp introduced the 188 hub, they claimed the radial pattern on the drive side improved stiffness.
    When in the autumn of 2013 they reverted to the previous pattern, they claimed it improved stiffness

    So clearly one of the two statements is bullshxt

    The new hubs (2014) are also quite a bit heavier although seems a small price to pay for them not exploding.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Grill wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Just to be clear: when Zipp introduced the 188 hub, they claimed the radial pattern on the drive side improved stiffness.
    When in the autumn of 2013 they reverted to the previous pattern, they claimed it improved stiffness

    So clearly one of the two statements is bullshxt

    The new hubs (2014) are also quite a bit heavier although seems a small price to pay for them not exploding.

    there we go. i'm going to have to get myself a hope front hub now! last thing i want is for a hub to go bang!
  • opusver21
    opusver21 Posts: 56
    philbar72 wrote:
    I own a pair of the 2012 clinchers.

    They are very fast and good all rounders but their hubs are odd, i keep having to adjust the front hub and have had the rear hub replaced and the wheel set up as 2 cross rear spokes setup. its a shame zipp just don't sell the rims by themselves as the rest of the componentry on their wheels is not up to the Rims high standard.
    my overall view is they are not worth what they sell for, by a long stretch. Compare them to my dura ace c50's and you get a slightly heavier but faster wheel for much less (it is less good at climbing but faster elsewhere).

    Are your C50's clinchers or tubs? They were also on my short list but in tub version
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Currently clinchers, slightly heavier than the zipps but are very very nice. Roll better, more aero and brake really nicely.
  • DiscoBoy
    DiscoBoy Posts: 905
    philbar72 wrote:
    Currently clinchers, slightly heavier than the zipps but are more aero


    Citation needed.
    Red bikes are the fastest.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    DiscoBoy wrote:
    philbar72 wrote:
    Currently clinchers, slightly heavier than the zipps but are more aero


    Citation needed.

    As much as I love DA hubs, there is no way their rims are more aero.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • DiscoBoy
    DiscoBoy Posts: 905
    Grill wrote:
    DiscoBoy wrote:
    philbar72 wrote:
    Currently clinchers, slightly heavier than the zipps but are more aero


    Citation needed.

    As much as I love DA hubs, there is no way their rims are more aero.

    My thoughts exactly, and I have the C50 rims myself.
    Red bikes are the fastest.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    what than a 303? yes, my perception is thats the case.

    Am i doing something wrong ( like not pedalling hard enough).

    My fastest times in road bike tt's are with the c50's and the zipps have come 4th fastest in that same TT everything the same other than the wheels, oh and the weather! :(
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Absolutely no way. You buy C50's for the hubs, not the rim.

    roues.jpg

    This is dated but you can clearly see how much faster the 404 (original ship so pre-FC and no dimples) is than the C50. The C50 hasn't changed (at least yours hasn't, the 9000 has gotten a bit wider), and even with the difference in depth between the 303 and 404 the change in shape from when that initial test was run would more than compensate.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Grill wrote:
    Absolutely no way. You buy C50's for the hubs, not the rim.

    roues.jpg

    This is dated but you can clearly see how much faster the 404 (original ship so pre-FC and no dimples) is than the C50. The C50 hasn't changed (at least yours hasn't, the 9000 has gotten a bit wider), and even with the difference in depth between the 303 and 404 the change in shape from when that initial test was run would more than compensate.

    WInd tunnel tests only tell part of the story and are no substitute for times in a time trial. Given a big enough sample of times, if Philbar is faster with the C50, I'd say he is entitled to say they are faster, regardless of the wind tunnel says
    left the forum March 2023
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    We get it - you don't like Zipps.
  • itsnotarace
    itsnotarace Posts: 518
    Thanks for the new sig :lol:
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    We get it - you don't like Zipps.

    Neither do I, but I understand when superiority when I see it. Zipp rims on DA hubs would be nice.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    There are lies, damned lies and wind tunnel tests.

    Head on, a foiled rim profile is excellent. With any yaw angle at all, the air stalls over the trailing half of the wheel and the drag increases dramatically. You won't see this shown unless the test is through a full 45deg sweep.

    Rim depth will play a far greater aero role than subtle differences in rim profile, assuming both are toroidal.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Bar Shaker wrote:
    Rim depth will play a far greater aero role than subtle differences in rim profile, assuming both are toroidal.

    Which the C50 is not...
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    The Shimano are lower spoke count... that's aerodynamics too... 303 are 20/24, Shmano is 16/20 on top of my head
    left the forum March 2023
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    303 is 18/24.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    We get it - you don't like Zipps.

    I like them, just not the way they are put together. final club 10 of the season on wednesday. I'll be using the zipps. weather has a big effect on "the numbers" so we will see. the zipps are lighter, and supposedly more aero so on a rolling course they could maybe be an advantage. also my 30 second man in front of me is slower so i should be a bit more motivated....

    the c50 -9000s have 21 spokes on the rear.

    in perfect conditions i'm sure the zipps are very fast. one thing i have noticed in comparison to the c50's is they react far less to crosswinds.

    I've sorted the front hub out now, so hopefully will stop moaning about them! :)
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    oh and the rear one is on a dura ace 9000 hub Grill. Ugo rebuilt it for me. Fine job. it was just the front that was giving me reason to moan!
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    so last TT of the year ( or club 10) and i used the zipps.

    beat my PB by 54 seconds. Now i was wearing my new skinsuit... but even so, I was stunned. they do actually hold speed better than the C50's, as i went consistently faster everywhere on the course. if it were a flat course, then there might be slightly less in it.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    philbar72 wrote:
    so last TT of the year ( or club 10) and i used the zipps.

    beat my PB by 54 seconds. Now i was wearing my new skinsuit... but even so, I was stunned. they do actually hold speed better than the C50's, as i went consistently faster everywhere on the course. if it were a flat course, then there might be slightly less in it.

    Ha ha... a change of heart! :twisted:
    left the forum March 2023
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Just a bit.
    As you've always said the rims are good bits of engineering, the rest slightly less so. C50's are still very good wheels, but there was an obvious difference in performance. now all i need are aero bars and an even sillier hat!

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