Andy Schleck, still a grand tour contendor?

SeadooXP
SeadooXP Posts: 28
edited August 2014 in Pro race
I came across this news article regarding Andy's untimely crash, knee injury and sad departure from the 2014 TDF: this small snippet sums up his career performance as of late:
Schleck’s anonymous exit is a sad reflection of just how far the once-heralded Luxembourger has fallen. For the rider who once went pedal stroke to pedal stroke with Alberto Contador (Tinkoff-Saxo) for supremacy in the Tour, exiting the Tour can only be a major setback, physically and emotionally.
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/07/ ... wgkukCh.99

Andy has always had a bit of a motivation problem. He never rode with fury, anger or spirit when compared with some of the greats. He was/is not a very dynamic racer, and had a bit of a knock kneed gate, however, despite all this, still had/has great potential. He has the physical ability and the V02 max to challenge for the grand tours, but his resolve has suffered. During the early, charmed years of his cycling career, wins came easy, a strong supportive team and brother Frank, aiding him all the way to the finish line. But it wasn't meant to be. When faced adversity and challenge, Andy began to crack. His last decent season was 2011. In 2012, at the prologue of the Critérium du Dauphiné Johan Bruyneel attempted to use the media to motivate Andy to perform at a higher level, as he had been flaking out quite a bit and his result in the C du D prologue was atrocious. His general attitude was poor at best. Bruyneel, desperate to help Andy perform on par with his teammates, felt he had no choice left but to go to the media:
Bruyneel has been outspoken in his criticism of Schleck and his brother Frank since the latter withdrew from the Giro d'Italia during stage 15 with a injuries to his shoulder and neck following a crash. Bruyneel implied publicly that the injuries weren't bad enough to warrant a withdrawal from the race and then later criticised the brothers from Luxembourg for a lack of leadership this season.

Do you guys think this criticism is warranted? What of Andy's future, do you think he can make another comeback after all that has happened?
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Comments

  • curium
    curium Posts: 815
    Washed up.

    The mental battle is the first and hardest battle that must be won. If you don't believe in yourself don't expect your body to try and convince you.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Too dependent on others,and far too mentally weak, also technically not good enough at TT’ing or descending. Needs to retire or find a smaller team that can support his needs. Comes across as a bit of a spoilt brat really. Having said that some of his rides in 2011 and 2010 were pretty epic.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,125
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  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,107
    There is always the question of whether his previous form was due to doping - if he was perhaps his current form is his real level.

    If he was always clean then I think he's still got a chance of getting back to being a contender - anyone needs to be in the right environment to perform - we've seen Wiggins at various times go from being average to grand tour contender to Tour winner and in the right team I think Schleck still has a chance...assuming his performances were genuine.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    I think we all know the most plausible reason as to why Andy isn't performing and whenever I read an article trying to explain his fall from grace without even touching the subject it all seems a bit.. hollow.
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    I recognise that Andy's success and subsequent lack of success could be explained by doping. If, however, his success was purely down to doping the implication is that he had very limited natural talents (and was a very good responder to PEDs) because plenty of 'convicted' and known dopers (Valverde, Basso, Contador, Menchov) have been much closer to their best on their return.
  • mm1
    mm1 Posts: 1,063
    SeadooXP wrote:
    He never rode with fury, anger or spirit when compared with some of the greats.

    Didn't he say something about riding "with anger in his belly" after "chaingate", when he also said "if you draw your sword and drop it you die".

    This is the rider whose talent Cyril Guimard compared to Laurent Fignon. I hope he can come back to perform at a level he can be satisfied with, but sadly that doesn't look very likely.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    There are two things:

    1) Motivation... the guy struggles with it and needs some proper coaching if he is ever to return to some form. He needs to be in the right environment with the right manager and team mates... but as Wiggins says, the PRO Tour is cut throat and maybe Andy is history.

    2) His fall coincides with his brother's doping ban, which might suggest a link to some drugs supply that no longer exits. It is well known how the Schleck family was targeted even by the police, so someone knew something that we are not aware of. Of course this is the conspiracy theory but probably not a million miles from the truth
    left the forum March 2023
  • mm1
    mm1 Posts: 1,063
    1. Motivation - could have done with Guimard's guidance throughout his career (as could David Millar).

    2. Highlights what a mess the sport has been in for the last 20 years (not that I condone the use of mere 'phets and 'roids, its just that they don't distort results and perceptions of "talent" quite so much.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,107
    Paulie W wrote:
    I recognise that Andy's success and subsequent lack of success could be explained by doping. If, however, his success was purely down to doping the implication is that he had very limited natural talents (and was a very good responder to PEDs) because plenty of 'convicted' and known dopers (Valverde, Basso, Contador, Menchov) have been much closer to their best on their return.


    Yes the first three have all shown more form than Schleck (not sure Menchov was ever banned until recently was he?) but still arguably less than they did pre-ban. I guess the truth is we don't know - it's true he was seen as a talent as a teenager so there must be something there. If I owned a team I'd take a punt on him for the right money - I'm sure plenty would but the question has to be whether Schleck is willing to accept his value is not what it was. He did show signs at the Tour that he was starting to come into some kind of form - not what he was but enough to suggest it's still possible.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    think he could be a top 20 GT rider and on a good day could break into top 10, the trouble is he just doesn't seem able to string together 21 good days any more.

    Maybe he just had too many good results too young and so doesn't really know how to dig deep and perform when the odds are against him
  • SeadooXP
    SeadooXP Posts: 28
    Interesting discussion. I agree with the doping suspicions, Andy came out of nowhere in 2007 to a 2nd overall podium finish in the Giro, which for me raised more questions that answers.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,545
    He wasn't even 22 by then and had won the Flèche Du Sud as an 18 year old amateur, a couple of stages of the Sachsen Tour and the KOM at the Tour of Britain. OK they weren't huge wins but it's hard to have major palmares when you haven't had a chance to ride the races. Guimard had rated him as one of the best talents he'd seen and he'd seen a few. Do I think he's been doping? Yes, but a talented rider can break straight into the big time.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,451
    If the theory is that Andy was doped and is now clean, what's the theory on why he would be riding clean now?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    TailWindHome wrote:
    If the theory is that Andy was doped and is now clean, what's the theory on why he would be riding clean now?

    +1
  • RoadPainter
    RoadPainter Posts: 375
    TailWindHome wrote:
    If the theory is that Andy was doped and is now clean, what's the theory on why he would be riding clean now?
    Because his brother got caught
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    RoadPainter wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    If the theory is that Andy was doped and is now clean, what's the theory on why he would be riding clean now?
    Because his brother got caught

    Twice.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,679
    Paulie W wrote:
    I recognise that Andy's success and subsequent lack of success could be explained by doping. If, however, his success was purely down to doping the implication is that he had very limited natural talents (and was a very good responder to PEDs) because plenty of 'convicted' and known dopers (Valverde, Basso, Contador, Menchov) have been much closer to their best on their return.

    I'm suspicious of all the others after return. Copping a ban and then coming back doesn't equate to riding clean.
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  • Cannock Chase
    Cannock Chase Posts: 558
    May have been a better rider if he'd had his head reversed.

    He'd have gone faster forward if he didn't keep looking backwards..!!
    I'm not getting old... I'm just using lower gears......
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  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    ThomThom wrote:
    RoadPainter wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    If the theory is that Andy was doped and is now clean, what's the theory on why he would be riding clean now?
    Because his brother got caught

    Twice.
    We all know Frank was only buying training plans, that had the advice ride your bike, from a notorious doping doctor. I'm shocked that anyone could believe something different was going on
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    I'm happy to go along with the theory that a major factor in Andy's form is that he is now sans dope. I don't think anyone can claim it is the whole story though.

    Post-ban Frank is still doing pretty well. Not close to his peak of course but good enough for 12th in the Tour. Whereas Andy is struggling to finish a race, and even when he does manage it he finds himself amongst the domestiques, sprinters and unknown stagiaires.

    There has to be more to it than dope. One thing's for sure he doesn't deserve to be on a WT team unless he gets his head together.
  • mulletmaster
    mulletmaster Posts: 502
    How many GC riders or should I say, riders with GC intentions, that didn't befall a total calamity actually finished lower than 12th? Soon after then you will be in around the guys who had a crash and lost a load of time etc one day. I wouldn't suggest 12th is much of an achievement for someone on his salary with a dedicated team.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    mulletmaster wrote:
    How many GC riders or should I say, riders with GC intentions, that didn't befall a total calamity actually finished lower than 12th? Soon after then you will be in around the guys who had a crash and lost a load of time etc one day. I wouldn't suggest 12th is much of an achievement for someone on his salary with a dedicated team.

    I think the point made is that occasionally he did seem to be able to stay with the best on the final climb... he might still be able to win a Tour of Romandie or similar one week race, I don't think anyone is implying he can still get a podium at the Tour.
    As Rui Costa and Talansky clearly showed, there is an abyss between winning a one week stage race and finishing in the top three at the Tour
    left the forum March 2023
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,451
    sherer wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    RoadPainter wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    If the theory is that Andy was doped and is now clean, what's the theory on why he would be riding clean now?
    Because his brother got caught

    Twice.
    We all know Frank was only buying training plans, that had the advice ride your bike, from a notorious doping doctor. I'm shocked that anyone could believe something different was going on

    So, is Frank doping?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    It is sad, but Andy seems to be finished. Personally I think he has probably earned enough money that riding for the next big contract isn't a motivation and I also think that winning doesn't motivate him. Taking the example of football, he is like many of the players that have a small amount of success and simply don't have the desire or motivation to keep training hard and digging deep. Thankfully we have another set of exciting brothers in cycling now, the Yates twins, who seem to have the hunger/desire and the talent.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    squired wrote:
    Taking the example of football, he is like many of the players that have a small amount of success and simply don't have the desire or motivation to keep training hard and digging deep.

    I never thought of him of the cycling equivalent of Balotelli, but you're right, I guess
    left the forum March 2023
  • type:epyt
    type:epyt Posts: 766
    Garmin would have been a good fit for Andy (but only Andy, time to cut those ties as the brotherly dynamic is definitely no longer working) but I think there's no room with the supposed 'dale merger and also JV seems to want to concentrate on the future and no longer re-habilitate riders seeking refuge from former indescretions/glories.

    Andy's best bet is Tinkoff and a re-union with Riis but there's that pesky doping investigation hanging over Riis and Andy might already be due a phone call about that one.
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.
  • mulletmaster
    mulletmaster Posts: 502
    Too many questions and not enough answers that justify a WT paying him. Maybe a luxury domestique for somebody if he could convince folk he actually fancied grafting but he has as much hope of beating Froome/Nibali/Quintana/Contador as I have of getting a phone call for Van Gaal to join the utd squad this week.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    mulletmaster wrote:
    Too many questions and not enough answers that justify a WT paying him. Maybe a luxury domestique for somebody if he could convince folk he actually fancied grafting but he has as much hope of beating Froome/Nibali/Quintana/Contador as I have of getting a phone call for Van Gaal to join the utd squad this week.

    Seems perfect for Lampre then.... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,601
    Franks ban happened around the same time that Andy had his big crash didn't it? Didn't Andy break his pelvis?
    I wonder if it's a combination of being clean, never having fully recovered from his injuries, and being mentally scared by the injury.

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