Shimano to Sram 1X11

tomerg

Hi Guys, my first topic here, thank you for your help.
I have a Merida Big Seven CF3000 2014.
I decided that i want to change the 2X10 setup to SRAM XX1

I don't understand few technical issues that are a must for the purchase:

1) Do I need to replace my current BB ?
2) If I want to replace my BB to SRAM (It actually cheaper when you buy a group-set), what kind should i get they have so many options ?
3) What is the Q-factor that i need.

Thank you very much, I really tried to get this knowledge online but only left with more questions.

Tomer.

bigdrew1

I've never even seen a 1*11 set up so it is worth double checking this before you spend any money.

What BB do you have in your frame at the moment? If it is a hollowtech one? If so you will have to change to a GPX bb..

Q factor is up to you I believe, it is the distance between the crank arms.. Some frames may have clearance issues with the smaller option..

What rear hub do you have as you will need to change your free hub/ as well as the 11 speed cassette wont fit on a 9-10 speed body...

tomerg

Thank you for the replay!

1) The bike came with full Deore XT group 2X10, i think that i have BB30 (not sure).
2) I saw that SRAM offers BB30 and GPX BB.
3) About the rear HUB i know and i will have to replace.

Thank you
Tomer.

BloggingFit

Why not wait for XTR 11 Speed to be available? Cheaper to upgrade as you can use existing hub for the cassette and some wide/narrow chainrings such as AbsoluteBlack are compatible with the 11 speed chain so you can use your existing XT cranks and BB. Just leaves you with rear mech, chain and shifter to purchase and it should shift better and be more durable over XX1.

tomerg

Hi, thank you for the replay
You are correct with everything you said.
This are my reasons for SRAM
1) I am afraid from the 11-40 range vs 10-42.
2) I really love the GripShift (had Gripshift many many years ago before SRAM) , this option is not available with Shimano.
3) Even due Shimano never failed me (I truly think that when they put something on the shelf its working), i am a bit afraid to be the tester for the system, no one really knows how it will work.

* Also i never used SRAM, i think it will be cool to try something new (Big Shimano fan).

THX

njee20

You can still use a narrow wide ring on your existing cranks, far cheaper.

If you have got BB30 you'll have an adapter. Irrespective you'll need to change your BB if you change to SRAM cranks. Obviously if your frame is BB30 you can use the BB30 cranks, otherwise you'll need the GXP ones and use your adapter as present.

The narrow q-factor is narrow, to guarantee compatibility go for the wider one, it's still slightly narrower than Shimano, and quite honestly it's pretty insignificant on MTBs.

But yes, you'll still need:

- XD free hub body
- cassette
- chain
- shifter
- rear mech
- either a chainring or chainset/BB

tomerg

Thank you
I think that i got BB30 with adapter on this bike, i found with the bike manuals a page showing how to install/remove BB30 adapter.

So lets see if i got you correctly:
1) In any case i will have to change my BB in order to use SRAM crank ?
2) If my frame is BB30 than i need BB30 BB from SRAM ?
3) If my frame is BB30 with adapter i will need the GXP one ?

* I'm afraid to ask but what about the press fit options are they relevant to me ?
thanks !

rockmonkeysc

Wait a couple months for XTR 11 speed. It will be a much cheaper upgrade and you won't have to use a useless SRAM BB. My SRAM bottom brackets last about half as long as my Shimano XT BBs.

njee20

So lets see if i got you correctly:
1) In any case i will have to change my BB in order to use SRAM crank ?
2) If my frame is BB30 than i need BB30 BB from SRAM ?
3) If my frame is BB30 with adapter i will need the GXP one ?

1) Yes
2/3) No, if it's BB30 then you have the option to use either the BB30 crank (getting rid of your current adapter), or the GXP variant, in conjunction with your adapter. I'd do the former, pointless not to. I wouldn't do either though, the SRAM cranks aren't that light, just use the XTs and save the cash.

Wait a couple months for XTR 11 speed. It will be a much cheaper upgrade and you won't have to use a useless SRAM BB.

Firstly, it's not cheaper, nor is it available yet, nor does it have the range. If you wait until October when it's all available then CRC have it discounted to £650, a quick Google shows an XX1 groupset for €789, or £624. Then it still has a smaller range, as the OP has said he's unsure of. Also as said, the OP doesn't have to change the cranks at all, but if he does go SRAM he can use BB30 as his frame's designed for, which isn't an option with Shimano.

The XTR groupset will be excellent, but it's hardly a low cost alternative to XX1, people are getting hung up on the fact the cassette is a bit cheaper - £160 on CRC, whilst XX1 is £194, or £181 shopping around elsewhere. Not exactly an earth shattering difference.

tomerg

Guys thanks a lot for all the ideas and answers

just use the XTs and save the cash

.

How can i do that ? lets say i get the SRAM, chain, cassette, rear-D, and shifter.
the XT wont work with that ?

THX

njee20

You still need a chainring, and you'd obviously be daft not to get a narrow wide one, but Wolftooth, Works, Absolute Black, Race Face, Blackspire etc all do them - any 104mm chainring will work fine. There's nothing inherently special about the SRAM chainrings, as they (weirdly) haven't patented their tooth profiles.

Chunkers1980

Rubbish.

tomerg

I learned a lot !
Thank you very much

Tomer

njee20

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Rubbish.

What is?

Chunkers1980

What I had written!

njee20

Aaah, ok!

Lewis A

njee20 wrote:

Wait a couple months for XTR 11 speed. It will be a much cheaper upgrade and you won't have to use a useless SRAM BB.

Firstly, it's not cheaper, nor is it available yet, nor does it have the range. If you wait until October when it's all available then CRC have it discounted to £650, a quick Google shows an XX1 groupset for €789, or £624. Then it still has a smaller range, as the OP has said he's unsure of. Also as said, the OP doesn't have to change the cranks at all, but if he does go SRAM he can use BB30 as his frame's designed for, which isn't an option with Shimano.

The XTR groupset will be excellent, but it's hardly a low cost alternative to XX1, people are getting hung up on the fact the cassette is a bit cheaper - £160 on CRC, whilst XX1 is £194, or £181 shopping around elsewhere. Not exactly an earth shattering difference.

Don't forget he'd need a new freehub body/hub.

njee20

Which is a complete one off, and plenty of hubs can be bought with an XD body these days.

rockmonkeysc

The cost of replacement cassettes would put me off SRAM, especially with their short life.

mcnultycop

I like the idea of the 10t sprocket though.

But yeah, stupid money.

njee20

The cost of replacement cassettes would put me off SRAM, especially with their short life.

But they're only £20 more than XTR, and X1 is the same price. What short life? My XX1 cassette has done just over 1000 miles now, original chain, still not at 0.75% wear.

Lewis A

njee20 wrote:

Which is a complete one off, and plenty of hubs can be bought with an XD body these days.

A one off cost he won't have to pay for if he goes xtr...

njee20

Ok, so XTR is about £30 cheaper then. It's still not exactly the low cost alternative some seem to be touting it as.

Ferrals

I don't really get where shimano is going with their 11 speed that they think you should still run as 2 by and electric shifting, seems like over complicating things. Having gone 1 by 10 recently and loving that if i had the cash I'd be all over xx1 like a rash!

njee20

The Di2 is an option, and they're basically saying "if 11-40 isn't enough, then a single ring transmission isn't for you". SRAM are trying to bring 1x11 to everyone, Shimano are providing alternatives.

I wonder if an XTR mech/shifter will work on an XX1 cassette. Di2 with 10-42 may be an option yet...

BloggingFit

Ferrals wrote:

I don't really get where shimano is going with their 11 speed that they think you should still run as 2 by and electric shifting, seems like over complicating things. Having gone 1 by 10 recently and loving that if i had the cash I'd be all over xx1 like a rash!

Still the 1x11 option which is their primary product. The 2x11 option is just that, an option.

I'm the opposite in that I don't get the negativity towards XTR 11 speed over XX1 - 40t vs 42t on the cassette is pretty much the only difference. Yet this is a big deal that renders XTR useless in comparison? I think 10 - 40 is an acceptable spread over 11 speed with a slightly better step between ratios compared to XX1. If you pick you final drive (chainring) correctly to your riding then the rear range should work perfectly.

njee20

Still the 1x11 option which is their primary product. The 2x11 option is just that, an option.

Shimano? Why do you say that? I'd say if anything 2x11 is the primary product, you're not going to develop a Di2 front mech for something you'll not billing as the best, they're not appearing to do anything crazy with tooth profiles or anything.

But that was my point anyway, SRAM are saying - "you need 1x11, we've got a massive range to accommodate even the fattest chipper."

Shimano are saying "you want' 1x11, we've got that, but if you're not all that fit, we've got 2x11 as well", it's a more holistic solution, they're not backing either single or double transmissions.

I don't think there is any negativity towards XTR, there's just a knee jerk reaction that "XX1 is silly money, XTR is a way cheaper idea", which isn't the case - like I said, the cassette is a pretty small difference. The freehub body thing is a minor advantage, but virtually everyone has an XD body now, it's a small additional one off cost.

XTR is 11-40, not 10-40. I was perfectly happy with 11-36, so no, I'd have no issues with 11-40, but fact is that it's a narrower range, so XX1 will cater for more people. Different, not better/worse.

BloggingFit

From a sales and numbers perspective I would think it will be their primary product. I don't see many potential 1x customers being tempted away back to a 2x setup. I could be very wrong and only Shimano can tell us that a year down the line.

From a marketing perspective then maybe it's 2x11, especially if it's the Di2 platform as you say. I'm not sure I get the whole concept of 2x with Di2 apart from having the continuity with the rear (which I can really see the point to from a custom setup perspective) and bragging rights.

Still we're lucky to have such a choice and be prepared for electronics to feature more in the next few years with Bluetooth.

crossed

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The cost of replacement cassettes would put me off SRAM, especially with their short life.

I'm not sure where people get this idea from that XX1 cassettes have a short life?

I've had mine fitted for about 1800 miles so far and it's not really showing any signs of wear. The people I know who are running XX1 don't seem to be finding any excessive wear on theirs either.
The only one I've seen wear out within a reasonable low mileage was a guy who posted photo's of his up on STW, he'd ran it for about 1000-1200 miles without any cleaning or other maintenance apart front he odd drop of chain lube so it wasn't exactly unexpected!

njee20

From a sales and numbers perspective I would think it will be their primary product. I don't see many potential 1x customers being tempted away back to a 2x setup. I could be very wrong and only Shimano can tell us that a year down the line.

The OEM market is infinitely bigger than aftermarket, and I suspect doubles will still rule the roost there for a while, particularly with the more limited range.

I'm not sure I get the whole concept of 2x with Di2 apart from having the continuity with the rear

Do you mean the double specifically, or the Di2 bit? Di2 is just a different mechanism to shift, there's no concept really to get, it's lighter (at least on the road, not sure on MTBs) than mechanical, requires less effort to shift and just works perfectly every time. The sequential shifting is neat, but that's a by-product really.
The 'point' of a double is that it gives a far wider range...

Ferrals

From my perspective (and I hasten to add this is academic as i wouldn't be able to afford either). the 10cog rather than 11cog is the major bonus for SRAM, when you look at gearing ratios that does make a big difference, with either 34 or 32 up front and a 10-42 you aren't that far off the spread of a double chainset.