Poor Planet X setup

NickAndrew123

Hi,

So I took my relatively new Planet X RT-58 back to Planet X after about 3/4 week of solid use for a free service because the steer tube was starting to make some worrying creaks. I was given it back after the half hour service with the cables having been tightened and the brakes having been poorly readjusted and told that the creaking was down to the fact that it looked like I had used a pressure washer to clean my bike and then used a poor quality lubricant on the steer tube. Now I had yet to even clean my bike never mind have the courage to take it apart to re-lubricate it.

So when the creaks started again recently I thought I'd use a trusted guy to service my bike (Cycle Pro Sheffield) instead of paying for a substandard service from Planet X. Last time I used this guy to service my old Planet X Nanolight he came back and told me that he had re-setup my SRAM Rival as Planet X never seem to be able to do it right. And true to form he's come back again this time having to readjust my front and rear mech for my Ultegra which has lead to the chain being the wrong size and the new lubricant that Planet X used was wrong after all anyway. He hasn't charged me any extra for this so I don't feel like he's trying to pull the wool over my eyes. I'm just a little upset about the fact that I've spent a significant amount of time and money on a new bike which has simply not been put together properly.

I was wondering is there a specific way in which Ultegra can be set up or is it a matter of preference? Is it worth going after Planet X for some compensation for having to shell out for some extra work to be done on a new bike in a very short amount of time!?

Many thanks,

I'm not usually one to complain but just feeling somewhat aggrieved about this poor quality of service from their mechanics, the customer service has always been exquisite so this mechanical incompetence stands out all the more.

imposter2.0

I don't understand some of the things you are talking about - like 'the chain being the wrong size', or the 'wrong lubricant' - can you clarify?

Setting up a bike is practically identical, regardless of whatever groupset is used, as aside from a few subtle differences, pretty much all mechanical groupsets all work in the same way and are adjusted in the same way. Servicing a bicyle is very straightforward with just a few simple tools. You should learn to do it yourself.

bill57

I'm old fashioned. There are only two bike lubricants, grease and oil.

NickAndrew123

Ok ok I appreciate that I may not have been quite clear enough here, "the wrong lubricant" I think comes down to a matter of opinion but I think it was a little too lightweight for the area in which it was being used and that's what meant the noises kept coming back. And the chain size lead to a quick link having to be used to make it fit with the mechanism. So it sounds like Planet X have not been thorough enough when looking after and making my bike.

I completely agree that I should make my own efforts to look after my own bike, just being relatively new to this and with a brand new bike I was a little nervous about playing around too much.

imposter2.0

NickAndrew123 wrote:

I think it was a little too lightweight for the area in which it was being used and that's what meant the noises kept coming back. And the chain size lead to a quick link having to be used to make it fit with the mechanism.

I still don't understand. Which area was being lubricated? And what was the issue with the chain/quick link?

sanchez89

a quick link in the chain doesnt necessarily represent a chain that was too short, it may just be included for easy removal/replacement. i have a quick link on all my chains.

as for wrong sort of lubricant? where was it being applied and in what way was it incorrect? Planet X werent doing too well on returns of road bikes when i went too see them recently (strangely enough to take a bike back!) but i wouldnt like to comment on there causes of problems.

ic.

I don't think I understand either. I'm not even too sure what the original problem was, but I'll have a crack anyway

Getting creaks from the handlebar/stem areas isn't uncommon - telling you it's due to inferior lube on the steerer tube is total nonsense. Ignore that and put it down to them wanting to do the minimum amount of work on your "free service". They'll have probably tightened the stem bolts and not much more

They tightened the cables because all cables stretch in the first 6 weeks of use. They'll have done this anyway and probably not checked the results. It may well be the only thing they did do.

"Your Ultegra" is no different to anyone elses. You fit the parts to the bike, cable it up then adjust cable tension until gears are shifting perfectly. Same with Rival or any other groupset you've ever heard of. Maybe Planet X did a bad job of indexing the gears, you won't be the first, they sell hundreds of bikes a month and spend less time that you'd think building yours

Your chain length could well have been wrong. It's dictated by frame and gear size. A quick link being present doesn't mean it was too small to begin with as some manufacturers install them when new. If your bike shop guy says the chain was too short and used a quick link to lengthen it then that doesn't sound right either. One quick link won't lengthen a chain as it's only half a link. A short chain would usually mean a new chain is needed.

To be honest, I don't really see anything too unusual here. You bought a bike and had some issues with it's initial set up. Because you are relatively new to the game, you've been fobbed of a bit in the process.

Best thing to do is learn all this stuff yourself then you can trust the mechanic!

sniper68

IC. wrote:

To be honest, I don't really see anything too unusual here. You bought a bike and had some issues with it's initial set up. Because you are relatively new to the game, you've been fobbed of a bit in the process.
Best thing to do is learn all this stuff yourself then you can trust the mechanic!

^^^^^This^^^^^^.
I would also add that your "trusted" mechanic dissing/putting down another shop/mechanics work is also all too common especially if they know they can baffle you with whatever crap they see fit to spit out

junglist_matty

NickAndrew123 wrote:

because the steer tube was starting to make some worrying creaks

:shock: I'd be really worried if the tube is creaking.... that would indicate some sort of crack is present - after 3/4weeks that shouldn't happen.
Are you sure that it's not the stem that's creaking? Here's what to do:

1. Remove all stem bolts that connect stem to steerer tube
2. Remove stem from steerer tube
3. Clean the steerer tube and stem with a rag
4. Lightly grease the bolts that tighten the stem to the steerer
5. Lightly grease the steerer tube where the stem will attach
6. Refit stem to steerer tube and tighten bolts (use torque wrench if it's a carbon steerer - you don't want to crack the tube from over-tightening the stem).
7. Now remove the handlebars from the stem clamp and do the same process for the bolts/handle bars that hold them in place.

You shouldn't get any creaking now - check bolts tightness about once a month and do the above about twice a year (I do it before winter and before summer). You will also get creaks from the saddle, the same is true for that; clean contact parts (saddle rails) and seatpost bolts, lube these areas and bolts then refit saddle.

ic.

junglist_matty wrote:

6. Refit stem to steerer tube and tighten bolts (use torque wrench if it's a carbon steerer - you don't want to crack the tube from over-tightening the stem).

Erm, there's a bit more to it than that.

1. put any spacers back on
2. drop stem onto steerer
3. put any on top spacers back on
4. fit stem top cap and tighten to preload headset bearings
5. now tighten the stem bolts around the steerer

styxd

Go to your local citizens advice bureau and see what they say. May be worth taking them to a small claims court.

sanchez89

styxd wrote:

Go to your local citizens advice bureau and see what they say. May be worth taking them to a small claims court.

serious..

Matthewfalle

styxd wrote:

Go to your local citizens advice bureau and see what they say. May be worth taking them to a small claims court.

For what, exactly?

BenderRodriguez

junglist_matty wrote:

Here's what to do:

1. Remove all stem bolts that connect stem to steerer tube
2. Remove stem from steerer tube
3. Clean the steerer tube and stem with a rag
4. Lightly grease the bolts that tighten the stem to the steerer
5. Lightly grease the steerer tube where the stem will attach
6. Refit stem to steerer tube and tighten bolts (use torque wrench if it's a carbon steerer - you don't want to crack the tube from over-tightening the stem).
7. Now remove the handlebars from the stem clamp and do the same process for the bolts/handle bars that hold them in place.

If you grease bolts before fitting the torque setting (or, more accurately speaking, the amount of bolt stretch) you get from using the torque wrench will be way more than indicated and you may well strip the theads or damage the components. This is because the grease acts as a lubricant and a torque wrench can only measure the force needed to turn the bolt, which is largely a matter of the amount of friction present between the bolt and its mounting.

The specified torque settings achieved when using a torque wrench are only even reasonably accurate under certain strict conditions, typically when tightening a clean bolt that has been lubricated with light oil and then left to drain for an hour.

How Far is too Far

I recently bought a Planet X XLS, I have had to adjust the gears a bit and re grease the headset due to creaking after about 200 miles use. But to be honest this is not unusual and I have had similar problems with other bikes.

These jobs are just very basic quick adjustments that would only take a few mins and are easy to do. You might well be better off learning how to carry out minor work so you can enjoy riding your bike more without the hassle of taking it to a shop.

keef66

"typically when tightening a clean bolt that has been lubricated with light oil and then left to drain for an hour"

And what percentage of home mechanics or bike shops are going to do that for every bolt they tighten? 0.0001% I suspect.

So you're effectively saying that all the torque figures given by manufacturers of frames, stems, bars, components etc are pretty much useless? And that anyone greasing a bolt is likely over-tightening it, or installing it dry will be under-tightening it?

I'm sticking to using allen keys on lightly greased bolts, and tightening things just enough to stop them moving / creaking.

rafletcher

BenderRodriguez wrote:

junglist_matty wrote:

Here's what to do:

If you grease bolts before fitting the torque setting (or, more accurately speaking, the amount of bolt stretch) you get from using the torque wrench will be way more than indicated and you may well strip the theads or damage the components. This is because the grease acts as a lubricant and a torque wrench can only measure the force needed to turn the bolt, which is largely a matter of the amount of friction present between the bolt and its mounting.

The specified torque settings achieved when using a torque wrench are only even reasonably accurate under certain strict conditions, typically when tightening a clean bolt that has been lubricated with light oil and then left to drain for an hour.

Where on earth are you getting this stuff from??? If I have to torque up a SS bolt into a SS component, you bet your a**se I'm going load it with (lubricating) anti-seize or it'sll gall and cold weld before I've gone 5 thread in!. And in fact for VERY high torques, we used a stud stretcher, as the friction between bolt head and washer was such it led to under-torqueing, so we'd hydraulically stretch the studs and do the "nuts" - which were in fact cylinders threaded internally - up by hand before releasing the tension in the stud. So, to others, grease your screws and use a reasonably accurate torque wrench - on carbon bits. Otherwise (as I've done for 30+ years) grease them and use an allen key. If you manage to strip a screw I'll not be shaking your hand, you'd break my fingers!

styxd

rafletcher wrote:

BenderRodriguez wrote:

junglist_matty wrote:

Here's what to do:

If you grease bolts before fitting the torque setting (or, more accurately speaking, the amount of bolt stretch) you get from using the torque wrench will be way more than indicated and you may well strip the theads or damage the components. This is because the grease acts as a lubricant and a torque wrench can only measure the force needed to turn the bolt, which is largely a matter of the amount of friction present between the bolt and its mounting.

The specified torque settings achieved when using a torque wrench are only even reasonably accurate under certain strict conditions, typically when tightening a clean bolt that has been lubricated with light oil and then left to drain for an hour.

Where on earth are you getting this stuff from??? If I have to torque up a SS bolt into a SS component, you bet your a**se I'm going load it with (lubricating) anti-seize or it'sll gall and cold weld before I've gone 5 thread in!. And in fact for VERY high torques, we used a stud stretcher, as the friction between bolt head and washer was such it led to under-torqueing, so we'd hydraulically stretch the studs and do the "nuts" - which were in fact cylinders threaded internally - up by hand before releasing the tension in the stud. So, to others, grease your screws and use a reasonably accurate torque wrench - on carbon bits. Otherwise (as I've done for 30+ years) grease them and use an allen key. If you manage to strip a screw I'll not be shaking your hand, you'd break my fingers!

I agree. If you're not safe using an allen key, I doubt you're safe riding a bike out on the roads.

ic.

This has turned into a very weird thread.

Ben6899

IC. wrote:

This has turned into a very weird thread.

Standard.

stevenb

This is just another case of understanding what you are buying.
I have long since learnt to fix things myself and whatever I cant fix I research first so that I at least know what is involved to fix it so that I know I don't get ripped off.

I just recently bought my new bike from wheelbase. I had to index the gears, correct the brake alignment etc as I am a perfectionist and don't trust many people to look after my bike

I am the same with cars. Im mad on cars too and I know my car bumper to bumper. I never get ripped off....luckily!

sanchez89

back on topic....for what its worth.... didnt think you were meant to grease steerer tubes?

Matthewfalle

Anyhow, you have to look at Planet X for what it is - an excellent purveyor of discounted quality parts and great value bikes, but the customer service is shockingly shittt and like anything bought over the internet give a good look over the bikes/components when they arrive - after all, you would if your LBS had sold you a bike/component so why not from an internet retailer.

It's actually a shame that their customer service has gone so downhill lately - they used to be really good. Its actually painful to deal with them now and they have been really naughty on a recent past occasion re some bottle cages causing massive hassle to a couple of people (full story available if anyone is interested, but its taking this off thread), so just make sure you know what you're ordering.