Riders TT ability

specialgueststar
specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
edited July 2014 in Pro race
Is there some sort of graphical thing based on numbers that shows graphically the numerical goodness in a quantifiable way of how good a rider does at time trials. Like Martin would be 1 and Wiggins 0.92 and Steegmans 0.62 and Dumolin 0.29 and etc etc

Thinking about it there probably isn't

eg comparing Valverde vs Peraud vs TJ Van G etc

rather than qualitatively - x is a better time triallest than y....by how much ?

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Specifically including Peraud, Pinot, Valverde and other podium hopefuls!
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    coriordan wrote:
    Specifically including Peraud, Pinot, Valverde and other podium hopefuls!

    No not really - just think someone could produce a program based on ongoing performances at every race - procycling stats could probably knock something up
  • epc06
    epc06 Posts: 216
    Whats the bet Nibs does a monster test and beats Tony Martin in the TT?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    The closest recent TT was 2012 (52 Km)... TJVG gave Nibali a minute... the others weren't there or didn't perform.
    left the forum March 2023
  • dsoutar
    dsoutar Posts: 1,746
    EPC06 wrote:
    Whats the bet Nibs does a monster test and beats Tony Martin in the TT?

    I can't conceive the reaction in the Asylum if that happens
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    EPC06 wrote:
    Whats the bet Nibs does a monster test and beats Tony Martin in the TT?

    I don't see that. I see him top 10. usual suspects such as Tony Martin to the fore.
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    I'm sure you could pull all the stats from somewhere and combine them somehow to get a single number for each rider. The question is how much faith could you really put in the results. I don't think it would be much better than the problems you get trying to compare climb times with no context. You'd have to account for (or ignore) the weather varying during a TT, the weather being different across different TTs (someone might be good in the dry but struggle in the wet), when each TT took place (start of a GT would be different from the end, especially for GC contenders), the individual parcours of each TT (flat vs MTT or whatever) and whether a rider was actually trying to put in a good performance as opposed to rolling round trying to save themselves for hard stages to come.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    adr82 wrote:
    I'm sure you could pull all the stats from somewhere and combine them somehow to get a single number for each rider. The question is how much faith could you really put in the results. I don't think it would be much better than the problems you get trying to compare climb times with no context. You'd have to account for (or ignore) the weather varying during a TT, the weather being different across different TTs (someone might be good in the dry but struggle in the wet), when each TT took place (start of a GT would be different from the end, especially for GC contenders), the individual parcours of each TT (flat vs MTT or whatever) and whether a rider was actually trying to put in a good performance as opposed to rolling round trying to save themselves for hard stages to come.

    Surely best thing would be to create a graph...
  • type:epyt
    type:epyt Posts: 766
    Frenchfighter put together some head to head stats you can find here (near bottom of page): viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12976666&start=300
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    adr82 wrote:
    I'm sure you could pull all the stats from somewhere and combine them somehow to get a single number for each rider. The question is how much faith could you really put in the results. I don't think it would be much better than the problems you get trying to compare climb times with no context. You'd have to account for (or ignore) the weather varying during a TT, the weather being different across different TTs (someone might be good in the dry but struggle in the wet), when each TT took place (start of a GT would be different from the end, especially for GC contenders), the individual parcours of each TT (flat vs MTT or whatever) and whether a rider was actually trying to put in a good performance as opposed to rolling round trying to save themselves for hard stages to come.

    +1

    You'll find the top 10 tomorrow will just be TT specialists and GC contenders. My guess is that these will be the main protagonists.

    Panzer
    Dumoulin
    Izagirre
    Turbo Durbo
    Lady Garden
    Pinot
    Nibali
    Peraud
    Konig
    Tuft
    Kwiato
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    Joelsim wrote:
    adr82 wrote:
    I'm sure you could pull all the stats from somewhere and combine them somehow to get a single number for each rider. The question is how much faith could you really put in the results. I don't think it would be much better than the problems you get trying to compare climb times with no context. You'd have to account for (or ignore) the weather varying during a TT, the weather being different across different TTs (someone might be good in the dry but struggle in the wet), when each TT took place (start of a GT would be different from the end, especially for GC contenders), the individual parcours of each TT (flat vs MTT or whatever) and whether a rider was actually trying to put in a good performance as opposed to rolling round trying to save themselves for hard stages to come.

    +1

    You'll find the top 10 tomorrow will just be TT specialists and GC contenders. My guess is that these will be the main protagonists.

    Panzer
    Dumoulin
    Izagirre
    Turbo Durbo
    Lady Garden
    Pinot
    Nibali
    Peraud
    Konig
    Tuft
    Kwiato

    Sounds right but don't forget Valverde... he's the Spanish TT champion you know!
    (only because none of the major teams other than movistar took part I seem to recall...)
  • pottssteve
    pottssteve Posts: 4,069
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Is there some sort of graphical thing based on numbers that shows graphically the numerical goodness in a quantifiable way of how good a rider does at time trials. Like Martin would be 1 and Wiggins 0.92 and Steegmans 0.62 and Dumolin 0.29 and etc etc

    Thinking about it there probably isn't

    eg comparing Valverde vs Peraud vs TJ Van G etc

    rather than qualitatively - x is a better time triallest than y....by how much ?

    Cheng is 8.46
    Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    Speed handicapping as used by horse racing enthusiasts? Possibly too many variables in parcours, conditions etc to use meaningfully, though.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    Is there some sort of graphical thing based on numbers that shows graphically the numerical goodness in a quantifiable way of how good a rider does at time trials. Like Martin would be 1 and Wiggins 0.92 and Steegmans 0.62 and Dumolin 0.29 and etc etc

    Thinking about it there probably isn't

    eg comparing Valverde vs Peraud vs TJ Van G etc

    rather than qualitatively - x is a better time triallest than y....by how much ?
    You have to factor in the course as well. Pan flat and straight favours the boys with the biggest engines like Martin and Wiggo. As soon as you get lumps, bumps, hills, and tricky turns things start to shake up a little.

    Still, the engine is where it matters most.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    An annual ergo championship would be one way to pick the best physical TT specimen. Would be terrible TV tho!
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • Coachb
    Coachb Posts: 68
    Joelsim wrote:
    adr82 wrote:
    I'm sure you could pull all the stats from somewhere and combine them somehow to get a single number for each rider. The question is how much faith could you really put in the results. I don't think it would be much better than the problems you get trying to compare climb times with no context. You'd have to account for (or ignore) the weather varying during a TT, the weather being different across different TTs (someone might be good in the dry but struggle in the wet), when each TT took place (start of a GT would be different from the end, especially for GC contenders), the individual parcours of each TT (flat vs MTT or whatever) and whether a rider was actually trying to put in a good performance as opposed to rolling round trying to save themselves for hard stages to come.

    +1

    You'll find the top 10 tomorrow will just be TT specialists and GC contenders. My guess is that these will be the main protagonists.

    Panzer
    Dumoulin
    Izagirre
    Turbo Durbo
    Lady Garden
    Pinot
    Nibali
    Peraud
    Konig
    Tuft
    Kwiato

    You posted that with such confidence. It reeks of safe. I'm going for Cheng to storm it.
  • Art Vandelay
    Art Vandelay Posts: 1,982
    Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco had a 25.9km TT this year - results:

    1 Martin Tony 38:33
    2 Contador Alberto +0:07
    3 Kwiatkowski Michal +0:15
    4 Špilak Simon +0:16
    5 Peraud Jean-Christophe +0:35
    6 Dumoulin Tom +0:38
    7 Izagirre Ion +0:41
    8 Valverde Alejandro +1:02
    9 van Garderen Tejay +1:05
    10 Pinot Thibaut +1:25
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Coachb wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    adr82 wrote:
    I'm sure you could pull all the stats from somewhere and combine them somehow to get a single number for each rider. The question is how much faith could you really put in the results. I don't think it would be much better than the problems you get trying to compare climb times with no context. You'd have to account for (or ignore) the weather varying during a TT, the weather being different across different TTs (someone might be good in the dry but struggle in the wet), when each TT took place (start of a GT would be different from the end, especially for GC contenders), the individual parcours of each TT (flat vs MTT or whatever) and whether a rider was actually trying to put in a good performance as opposed to rolling round trying to save themselves for hard stages to come.

    +1

    You'll find the top 10 tomorrow will just be TT specialists and GC contenders. My guess is that these will be the main protagonists.

    Panzer
    Dumoulin
    Izagirre
    Turbo Durbo
    Lady Garden
    Pinot
    Nibali
    Peraud
    Konig
    Tuft
    Kwiato

    You posted that with such confidence. It reeks of safe. I'm going for Cheng to storm it.

    Cheng is 6 18 down at checkpoint 2. I still expect him to pull that time back to win it.

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