Wiggone!!
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To be honest, I read that as an olive branch from Sky to an unhappy Wiggo.dsoutar wrote:
Given that not long ago he'd said that he would sign for Sky again, to last night saying he was done with road cycling, it seems obvious that something has kicked off. No longer riding the Vuelta?
As others have said, it seems a bizarre end to the career of Britian's most successful cyclist...0 -
The thing that I find oddest is he's saying road teams are cut throat and implying the track team is a big cuddly commune where they respect reputations and let you ride even if you're not the best. That's blatantly not the case! You only have to look back to the London Olympics where Chris Hoy was dropped from the match sprinting in favour of Jason Kenny. Or go and ask Wendy Houvenaghel how warm and cuddly she thinks the track team is.
I can just see Shane Sutton sitting Wiggins down in the run up to Rio, telling him that he's only the 6th or 7th fastest team pursuiter available but he's made the squad anyway due to his reputation.0 -
Graeme_S wrote:The thing that I find oddest is he's saying road teams are cut throat and implying the track team is a big cuddly commune where they respect reputations and let you ride even if you're not the best. That's blatantly not the case! You only have to look back to the London Olympics where Chris Hoy was dropped from the match sprinting in favour of Jason Kenny. Or go and ask Wendy Houvenaghel how warm and cuddly she thinks the track team is.
I can just see Shane Sutton sitting Wiggins down in the run up to Rio, telling him that he's only the 6th or 7th fastest team pursuiter available but he's made the squad anyway due to his reputation.
The impression I got was more that if you're good enough you get picked, notwithstanding the situations where 4 into 3 a la Houvenhagel doesn't fit. I think the "cut-throat" comment related to the Sky Tour selection policy where Wiggo got the chop for lesser riders (Pate and Lopez in particular) for political (i.e. Froome/Cound) reasons.
When selection is purely on merit, it's quite possible to have a friendly atmosphere amongst squad members as not being picked when not good enough is not that hard to take once initial disappointment has been overcome.0 -
There will be plenty of teams who would tolerate him being track focused and doing the odd TT for publicity.
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as they seem to be linked with every rider in the world.0 -
If you look back to interviews post his TdF win in 2012, he focusses on the sacrifices he had to make to win a GT (and it was a GT heavy on TT and low on mountain top finishes so was made for him).
He has never had the commitment to go through that again, despite what he may have said about this years tour. And for the record he would have been ahead of Nibali - far too much climbing and hill top finishes this year for Brad, it was definately a Froome race, shame about the wrist.
Te converted from Track to Road to prove he could mix it with the best road riders (also IP was being dropped from Olympics which may have had a bearing). he's a TdeF champion so he's proved that and now family commiments and age etc means he's more comfortable going back to track, especially as Sky are now quite obsesssively focussed on Grand tour success.Bianchi Infinito CV
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Yep, I think you've got that right. There's probably also the element that once you're in the team on the track, you're all pulling together towards the same goal. On the road, there's only one winner, and some people on the same team (no names) may disagree about which of them it ought to be. Imagine if the TP was won by the first rider to cross the line, and guess just how long it would take for arguments to start, even (or especially) within successful teams.Wallace and Gromit wrote:Graeme_S wrote:The thing that I find oddest is he's saying road teams are cut throat and implying the track team is a big cuddly commune where they respect reputations and let you ride even if you're not the best. That's blatantly not the case! You only have to look back to the London Olympics where Chris Hoy was dropped from the match sprinting in favour of Jason Kenny. Or go and ask Wendy Houvenaghel how warm and cuddly she thinks the track team is.
I can just see Shane Sutton sitting Wiggins down in the run up to Rio, telling him that he's only the 6th or 7th fastest team pursuiter available but he's made the squad anyway due to his reputation.
The impression I got was more that if you're good enough you get picked, notwithstanding the situations where 4 into 3 a la Houvenhagel doesn't fit. I think the "cut-throat" comment related to the Sky Tour selection policy where Wiggo got the chop for lesser riders (Pate and Lopez in particular) for political (i.e. Froome/Cound) reasons.
When selection is purely on merit, it's quite possible to have a friendly atmosphere amongst squad members as not being picked when not good enough is not that hard to take once initial disappointment has been overcome.
I think the simplicity and measurability of the track, just a test of strength and endurance free from political tension, would probably make it a much more comfortable environment for someone like Wiggins, who (dare I say) can be a bit socially awkward. It wouldn't surprise me it he feels that it's a safer, more comfortable environment than the road, even if he's having to work harder physically to swap some of his endurance for the power of old.N00b commuter with delusions of competence
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A 4 min TP is sprint, rest, sprint, rest - off and on for 4 mins. A very unique and specific demand. Ed Clancy's peak power is probably off the chart compared to Wiggo right now.Wallace and Gromit wrote:Daz555 wrote:The 4 minute power he needs would kill his 1hr TT hopes.
I was wondering about this. Is it the stage race preparations that have compromised Wiggo's TP power or long TT preparations?
Or put another way, is it physiologically possible to be in (almost) optimum condition for the TP and a 1hr TT simultaneously?
Also TP seems to have moved on to become even more power focussed in recent years. 4:00 got you gold in Athens, 3:57 got you gold in Beijing. By London it was 3:51. :shock:You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Does seem odd......and then it will all seem perfect if he wins gold in Rio.Roberto di Velo wrote:
To be honest, I read that as an olive branch from Sky to an unhappy Wiggo.dsoutar wrote:
Given that not long ago he'd said that he would sign for Sky again, to last night saying he was done with road cycling, it seems obvious that something has kicked off. No longer riding the Vuelta?
As others have said, it seems a bizarre end to the career of Britian's most successful cyclist...You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Well it's obvious why he isn't riding the Vuelta any more. TP you're going to be in if you've got the numbers, there's no leader and no politics on the scale of tdf leadership. It's interesting that Brailsford is claiming that Thomas and Kennaugh have managed to combine track and road. I think that most people view that those two have been held back on the road because of their track commitments. That's not belittling the track, but more that they could have been better and stronger on the road earlier.0
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Daz555 wrote:
A 4 min TP is sprint, rest, sprint, rest - off and on for 4 mins. A very unique and specific demand. Ed Clancy's peak power is probably off the chart compared to Wiggo right now.Wallace and Gromit wrote:Daz555 wrote:The 4 minute power he needs would kill his 1hr TT hopes.
I was wondering about this. Is it the stage race preparations that have compromised Wiggo's TP power or long TT preparations?
Or put another way, is it physiologically possible to be in (almost) optimum condition for the TP and a 1hr TT simultaneously?
Also TP seems to have moved on to become even more power focussed in recent years. 4:00 got you gold in Athens, 3:57 got you gold in Beijing. By London it was 3:51. :shock:
That make sense. Wiggo could doubtless be very good at both simultaneously, but to win the gold he'll need to be at his absolute best, so I guess the ITT will have to be sacrificed.0 -
You can do both, but you can't be the BEST at both in the modern age at the same time. G dropped out of the road program for a long time in the run up to London - and he was never in GT or ITT winning shape to start with. Wiggo has further to come back from when it comes to being top dog on the track again.PuttyKnees wrote:Well it's obvious why he isn't riding the Vuelta any more. TP you're going to be in if you've got the numbers, there's no leader and no politics on the scale of tdf leadership. It's interesting that Brailsford is claiming that Thomas and Kennaugh have managed to combine track and road. I think that most people view that those two have been held back on the road because of their track commitments. That's not belittling the track, but more that they could have been better and stronger on the road earlier.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Who says he has lost power?Daz555 wrote:
The 4 minute power he needs would kill his 1hr TT hopes. More likely he'd try to beat Clancy for the omnium spot (or alongside him if 2 riders per nation are permitted in Rio).Wallace and Gromit wrote:I think one of two things happened yesterday. Either:
1 - He enjoyed the whole track racing experience so much that he just wants to do that now, along with the odd TT. TP and ITT gold in Rio - timetable permitting - would see him match Sir Chris for golds and be the most bemedalled Brit ever. If he does this, he can basically live at home all the time, avoiding missing his kids and causing domestic strife.
Wiggo doing such big turns showed how much power he has lost since his track days - as Sarah Storey was saying, rather than him pushing the team on, his turns on the front were more about allowing the guys behind to rest longer than usual - making use of his TT stamina.
The do 14sec laps in the TP, they have not had much time on track to do the 40mph required, the aussies are truly world class so gb need to have more time together.
GT's would rule this out but not one day races.
I am not sure why you say doing long turns shows he has lost turns, this means he can sustain hios power !
The TP is very technical and needs time together.
i have not seen stats but heard Wiggo was doing class times for IP.
The TP is now more of a sprint followed by recovery, then sprint again.
TP will only benefit his hour record as the training for TP will include endurance also.0 -
Wiggo himself has said he is lacking in track muscle and it was Sarah Storey who commented on his long turns. Chris Hoy also referred to his lack of track power - commenting on him starting 4th man stating this was because this allows him 3 bike lengths to keep up with Clancy's start.oldwelshman wrote:
Who says he has lost power?Daz555 wrote:
The 4 minute power he needs would kill his 1hr TT hopes. More likely he'd try to beat Clancy for the omnium spot (or alongside him if 2 riders per nation are permitted in Rio).Wallace and Gromit wrote:I think one of two things happened yesterday. Either:
1 - He enjoyed the whole track racing experience so much that he just wants to do that now, along with the odd TT. TP and ITT gold in Rio - timetable permitting - would see him match Sir Chris for golds and be the most bemedalled Brit ever. If he does this, he can basically live at home all the time, avoiding missing his kids and causing domestic strife.
Wiggo doing such big turns showed how much power he has lost since his track days - as Sarah Storey was saying, rather than him pushing the team on, his turns on the front were more about allowing the guys behind to rest longer than usual - making use of his TT stamina.
The do 14sec laps in the TP, they have not had much time on track to do the 40mph required, the aussies are truly world class so gb need to have more time together.
GT's would rule this out but not one day races.
I am not sure why you say doing long turns shows he has lost turns, this means he can sustain hios power !
The TP is very technical and needs time together.
i have not seen stats but heard Wiggo was doing class times for IP.
The TP is now more of a sprint followed by recovery, then sprint again.
TP will only benefit his hour record as the training for TP will include endurance also.
It is obvious that anyone who was dragging road riders up mountains in California two months ago cannot have the power to be at his best in a 4 minute sprint. Technically Wiggo looked very good at times I thought - his changes were some of the cleanest.
Sustaining power is not the same as peak power and a TP rider must go from "resting" out of the wind to putting down serious watts in order to maintain the tempo when they hit the wind - Hoy described it perfectly as "sprint - rest - sprint - rest. I suspect Wiggo does not go from out of the wind - to in the wind - and up to full gas as well as the likes of Clancy or Bobridge right now - or as well as he himself used to when he was 8 or 10kg heavier than he is now. Any why would he - he's most recently been in excellent climbing and superb TT shape.
I suspect Wiggo right now is a better IP rider than a TP one - going back to the sprint-rest-sprint rest thing.
Come Rio I would imagine that Wiggo will once again be the top man in the world at both IP and TP. And why not?
Regarding any possible attempt on the hour record - I agree entirely that pursuit training will help immensly - I doubt many road TT riders have the upper body strength to cope with 1hr of G forces on a track.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Is there an IP at Rio? Genuine question as I thought it had been dumped from the Olympics.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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The "done with road racing" quote seems to have been overplayed to me. The actual gist is "no road racing that gets in the way of track". I don't think that rules out spring classics, per se. The focus of his other quotes is "sod GTs".
I don't know where he can find the balance between road and track, or if that fits Sky's agenda for the team. My guess is that having pushed Wiggins towards the track they'll be happy to accommodate him, if he can commit to some classics and maybe the odd one week race.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No, there isn't. That's why wiggins is focussing on the team pursuit.DeVlaeminck wrote:Is there an IP at Rio? Genuine question as I thought it had been dumped from the Olympics.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
The problem with that is the Track World Championships clash with the Classics. (Which is stupid really, they should be in the off season)No tA Doctor wrote:I don't know where he can find the balance between road and track, or if that fits Sky's agenda for the team. My guess is that having pushed Wiggins towards the track they'll be happy to accommodate him, if he can commit to some classics and maybe the odd one week race.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Ah. Bugger.RichN95 wrote:
The problem with that is the Track World Championships clash with the Classics. (Which is stupid really, they should be in the off season)No tA Doctor wrote:I don't know where he can find the balance between road and track, or if that fits Sky's agenda for the team. My guess is that having pushed Wiggins towards the track they'll be happy to accommodate him, if he can commit to some classics and maybe the odd one week race.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:
No, there isn't. That's why wiggins is focussing on the team pursuit.DeVlaeminck wrote:Is there an IP at Rio? Genuine question as I thought it had been dumped from the Olympics.
Thought so, a couple of mentions on this thread about him being in shape for the IP in Rio made me wonder, I suppose he can still be in shape for an event that isn't taking place ![Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
It's a disgrace really. UCI need to be pushing IOC much much harder for a larger track program. At the moment the number of events they can hold is tightly restricted by the IOC.No tA Doctor wrote:
No, there isn't. That's why wiggins is focussing on the team pursuit.DeVlaeminck wrote:Is there an IP at Rio? Genuine question as I thought it had been dumped from the Olympics.
Losing IP and kilo is a shambles - they are events which really showcase the best individuals on the track.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Does he want to do track or Roubaix?
Don't see Cancellara, Vanmarke or Boonen on the boards when training for Roubaix, and you won't see the Aussie Team Pursuit team riding on Cobbles.0 -
Terpstra is a regular at the Six-Day races though.Rick Chasey wrote:Don't see Cancellara, Vanmarke or Boonen on the boards when training for Roubaix, and you won't see the Aussie Team Pursuit team riding on Cobbles.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Terpstra is a regular at the Six-Day races though.Rick Chasey wrote:Don't see Cancellara, Vanmarke or Boonen on the boards when training for Roubaix, and you won't see the Aussie Team Pursuit team riding on Cobbles.
True, true. Does do that in the off season.
Wouldn't back him to win anything on the track in the olympics though. And neither would you!0 -
As I mentioned up the thread, the track Worlds and Classics stupidly clash, so they couldn't do both anyway.Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Terpstra is a regular at the Six-Day races though.Rick Chasey wrote:Don't see Cancellara, Vanmarke or Boonen on the boards when training for Roubaix, and you won't see the Aussie Team Pursuit team riding on Cobbles.
True, true. Does do that in the off season.
Wouldn't back him to win anything on the track in the olympics though. And neither would you!Twitter: @RichN950 -
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Was a little surprised Brailsford heard about Wiggin's new 'commitment' to track in the press, same time we heard. Judging by his reaction on the cycling podcast anyway.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Yeah, you know what I mean.
Was a little surprised Brailsford heard about Wiggin's new 'commitment' to track in the press, same time we heard. Judging by his reaction on the cycling podcast anyway.
Man of the people manipulating things via the media - who'd have thunk it.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Terpstra is a regular at the Six-Day races though.Rick Chasey wrote:Don't see Cancellara, Vanmarke or Boonen on the boards when training for Roubaix, and you won't see the Aussie Team Pursuit team riding on Cobbles.
Didn't Adrie Van Der Poel do cyclo cross, 6 day events and the road? Mind you, he had a little 'help'. Probably needed it.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Daz555 wrote:
It's a disgrace really. UCI need to be pushing IOC much much harder for a larger track program. At the moment the number of events they can hold is tightly restricted by the IOC.No tA Doctor wrote:
No, there isn't. That's why wiggins is focussing on the team pursuit.DeVlaeminck wrote:Is there an IP at Rio? Genuine question as I thought it had been dumped from the Olympics.
Losing IP and kilo is a shambles - they are events which really showcase the best individuals on the track.
Very true. I have been arguing this for a while now.
There is no reason not too expand the track events, and certainly no reason for dropping any. The Velodrome is only used for the cycling so it hardly takes up time other sports could use. Look at swimming events, they seem to go on for the whole of the Olympics and the IOC dont kick off about that.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Yeah, you know what I mean.
Was a little surprised Brailsford heard about Wiggin's new 'commitment' to track in the press, same time we heard. Judging by his reaction on the cycling podcast anyway.
but it was revealing that he immediately recognised Wiggo had said it after not getting a result he might have hoped for...as in yeah seen him do that kind of thing before
Sky are obviously still in negotiations for a new contract at this point,though youd assume no other GT team would really look to accomodate track over road, so is he just stating the obvious outcome at this point with only Skys offer on the table, its not really a choice anymore.0 -
Daz555 wrote:
It's a disgrace really. UCI need to be pushing IOC much much harder for a larger track program. At the moment the number of events they can hold is tightly restricted by the IOC.
Losing IP and kilo is a shambles - they are events which really showcase the best individuals on the track.
No idea why Phat gave up the guts of the track programme, even he must have known that Coppi, Anquetil, Moser and others were class pursuiters. Of course something has to give to allow goff and anyone for tennis a place in the 'Lympics.0
