oops - think i made a mistake buying a road bike

redbikejohn

i was thinking about buying a road bike for a while and the recent need to get fitter (many reasons) i bought a giant defy 3.5 tripple. i wasn't able to use it for a while but once i was out on it i suddenly realised just how uncomfortable road bikes are! my full sus giant mtb floats over the bad roads but the defy is sooo unforgiving! tyres are at 90 to 100 psi - not sure what type but says min 90 (100?) on the side.
like most i struggeled with gearing on hills after the mtb but my fitness improved and i also popped another set of gears on the rear and it was better - but by now i was able to power up most hills. the only problem is my back has given up the very poor state of the roads is jarring my back so much i get a shooting pain in it now so ive had to stop riding the road bike and returned to the mtb. wow i didn't realise just how much the rear sus sucks up peddle power on hills! :shock:
i had a back injury in the past but it was fine until now. real pity as i was working up to cycling to work 26miles each way.

redbikejohn

so doing some more reading on here it lools like the answer might be buy 28mm tyresand lowering pressures. i was in the local bike shop in wycombe and asked them there about pressures saying 90psi was like riding on iron and asked if that was correct. told yes and did not get any advice on changing tyres / pressures etc. daft was now i'll buy on internet and they'll lose out. not the first time i they've had a funny attitude in there.

Rigga

Is the bike set up properly? I.e. saddle height, stem height/length etc. It may just be that its not set up correctly?

redbikejohn

yes its something i should look at. feels ok to ride but then again i dont know any different. got a handy link to a set up guide? as i'm damed if i'll pay the local bike shop to do it.... :roll:

Pedro77

Sounds like you haven't done your research correctly. The bike needs to be the correct frame size and correct setup/fit for you otherwise it may do more harm than good as you have found out. Do a google search for bike fit/setup and you will have a lot of info there.

Not being disrespectful but your post seems like a wind up...

Pedro

chrisaonabike

Not so much a wind-up, as evidence of lack of research, as you say.

Being used to a MTB isn't necessarily going to mean that road cycling will be a trivial adaptation. And buying a bike off the shelf somewhere and expecting it to fit, even if it's the right size, is a bit of an ask too. I've found that some really small changes in my setup make a really big difference to comfort.

The OP may be lucky, and a self-fit based on Youtube set up videos will do the job... or he may not.

Anonymous

redbikejohn wrote:

wow i didn't realise just how much the rear sus sucks up peddle power on hills! :shock:

I have bad news then, rear sus sucks up pedal power on the flat too.

It gets worse, front sus sucks up pedal power on hills...............Oh, and on flats.

I love watching people bounce along the road on an mtb
Always wonder if they beat themselves with a stick when they get home.

Mikey23

Your local bike shop should be able to help you out... Or did you buy off the internet?

redbikejohn

I didn't buy blind. I did look at frame sizes and bought accordingly. Its comfy enough to use and ride. I was just getting into it and enjoying it. 32 mile ride in the morning before starting a late shift. Lost 10kg already. Its just the impact on my back when hitting holes in the roads as you can't always go round them when vans and 4x4's only give you six inches to spare. I live in worry half the time that I'm going to be wiped out on a bicycle - after all the mad things I've survived on motorbikes!

redbikejohn

Oh and I assure you this was not intended as a wind-up (not too sure why you'd think that??). Took me ages to find a bike at the right budget and spec. Bought it while still off work recovering from surgery and built it and serviced it one handed! Had to scrounge about my bike bits selling on eBay to fund it - and now I'm not sure its for me, so not too happy.

apreading

All you can really do without changing bike is fit as wide a tyre as possible in the frame and pressure as low as possible.

See the calculator here to work out the best tyre pressures: http://www.dorkypantsr.us/bike-tire-pre ... lator.html

You can probably go lower than you think.

Also, scan the road ahead and plan for going round the worst potholes, often moving out before them to make traffic aware without last minute swerves.

ForumNewbie

redbikejohn wrote:

I didn't buy blind. I did look at frame sizes and bought accordingly. Its comfy enough to use and ride. I was just getting into it and enjoying it. 32 mile ride in the morning before starting a late shift. Lost 10kg already. Its just the impact on my back when hitting holes in the roads as you can't always go round them when vans and 4x4's only give you six inches to spare. I live in worry half the time that I'm going to be wiped out on a bicycle - after all the mad things I've survived on motorbikes!

If you can't avoid potholes and have to ride over them, I would think rising out of the saddle should lessen the impact on your back. I'm lucky in that the roads I ride are not that bad, but if I do suddenly come up to a bump/hole in the road that I can't avoid because of cars coming up behind, I get out of the saddle to lessen the impact.

apreading

ForumNewbie wrote:

redbikejohn wrote:

I didn't buy blind. I did look at frame sizes and bought accordingly. Its comfy enough to use and ride. I was just getting into it and enjoying it. 32 mile ride in the morning before starting a late shift. Lost 10kg already. Its just the impact on my back when hitting holes in the roads as you can't always go round them when vans and 4x4's only give you six inches to spare. I live in worry half the time that I'm going to be wiped out on a bicycle - after all the mad things I've survived on motorbikes!

If you can't avoid potholes and have to ride over them, I would think rising out of the saddle should lessen the impact on your back. I'm lucky in that the roads I ride are not that bad, but if I do suddenly come up to a bump/hole in the road that I can't avoid because of cars coming up behind, I get out of the saddle to lessen the impact.

And keep knees/elbows bent and relaxed, rather than straight and rigid.

Avenger197396

I learned early on in my cycling life to get out the gutter and assert myself in the first third of the lane. The gutter is full of rubbish and often where the pot holes form first along with poorly maintained drains etc. Invest in the book "Cyclecraft." It's not trendy and is a bit of dry read but the point it has to make will make life safer and easier and may help your back.

Jahmoo

I find stretching the back out of the saddle helps me on rides also. I just purchased a Carbon frame with 700x25 tyres to help soak up the road issues. The frame geometry needs a look also, if you have back issues already and your road bike is set for Race position, harsher ride and will only add to the issue.

I not only used my LBS for advise I purchased a bike from them, this way you get all you need, all the advise and they should be setting up the bike to fit you.

Hope you get sorted soon.

ai_1

If your back problems are due to jarring when you hit potholes and the like then a bit of care with tyre selection and riding technique may be all that's needed. As you say, wider tyres with lower pressure should help a lot. However, watching the road and unloading the saddle whenever you expect a bump is a basic skill that you should get used to quickly. Perhaps being used to a MTB will make this less natural but I quickly found that I was automatically transferring my weight from the saddle to my legs in anticipation of bumps very soon after starting to ride. You'll get the hang of it. Once you get used to a road bike you'll likely find it horrible to try and ride a MTB with suspension at speed on the road.

kajjal

With a MTB due to not being in a fixed position and moving round the bike more you can get away with a poorer bike setup. On a road bike you notice a lot more any setup problems. Read up on bike setup and the easy things to change are :-

Saddle height
Saddle tilt (flat for most people)
Saddle fore / aft position ( look up KOPS but being on flats you may need the saddle a bit further fowards)
Drop from saddle to bars ( varies from level for touring to several inches for head down racers, try up to a couple of inches. You can flip the stem to the upright position to reduce drop.)

That should give you some idea.

holiver

Tyres do make a massive difference as others have said. I recently replaced some 23mm Continental Gator Hardskin tyres with some 25mm Michelin Pro4 tyres. They are run at the same pressure and the Michelin's soak up bumps and road buzz where as the Continentals transmitted everything!

Bunny hopping pot holes is good fun.

It may be worth a trip to a bike fitter to get you in the most comfortable position too.

spm0912

I was in exactly the same position as you. All I can say is tyres, tyres, tyres. My bike came with 23mm gatorskins, swapped to 25mm GP4000. Not quite night and day but close enough.. Of course if you hit a pot hole it's gonna jar but in general ride is much smoother with no perceptible extra drag. Went for a spin on my hardtail MTB the other day, what a drag!!! Definitely worth persevering with the road bike and tweaking things until it's right for you.

apreading

Just topped my tyres up last night - havent checked them properly for about 2 months - front was GP4000S 25mm running at 55psi and rear GP 4 Seasons 28mm running at 65psi. In the last week I have set my fastest ever time on one of my 25 mile training routes and my second fastest on my most regular 12 mile training route. Not that this is necessarily down to the tyres - I think fitness level and being on my game on those rides was a big part but the point is that the lower pressures certainly werent slowing me down. It is entirely possible that the smoother ride was allowing me to put more power down, more of the time though.

Put them up to my normalish 80PSI front, 85PSI rear ready for a 100Km Audax tomorrow. Actually, my normal is probably 5-10PSI higher on each but I figured if I have been running happily over some pretty poor roads at 55/65 then perhaps I can drop my normal just a little bit.

ai_1

Likewise my normal pressure on 25mm is about 80 front, 95 rear but like you I've occassionally neglected to top them up and discovered later that I was riding on much lower pressures of 70 or less at the front and maybe 80 at the back. Never had a pinch puncture as a result. I prefer the feel of slightly harder tyres, especially when climbing or sprinting out of the saddle but pressures well below the norm are definitely viable.

Bucksspeedyboy

I also suggest changing the tyres in addition to the bike setup etc. I remember when I first changed tyres from the Bontranger bog- standard ones my Trek at the time came with to Continental GP4000 S's, the difference in the ride was amazing. When the tyres wore out, I changed them on my new bike to Michelin Pro4's which have a similar ride feel. I have always pumped my tyres up to the max (say 110psi) and I am not aware of an unforgiving ride or constant jarring, although that may be because I also have a carbon framed bike now which absorbs a lot of the road vibration.

I could never go back to riding a mountain bike on the road compared to my road bike as it's like driving a 4x4 compared to a sports car. But then again I do also drive a 2-seater car with hard suspension and it always makes me wonder why someone would buy something like a Range Rover because whenever I have driven them it's been like driving a sofa around! I guess it comes down to what you are used to and how much you value performance over comfort.

HebdenBiker

OnYourRight wrote:

1. Slide the saddle back on its rails. Way back – to begin with, as far back as it will go.

2. Flip the stem up. Ideally, replace with a shorter and higher stem.

:shock:

This is a wind-up, right?

HebdenBiker

OnYourRight wrote:

HebdenBiker wrote:

This is a wind-up, right?

Why do you say so? I’ve just told redbikejohn how to get rid of his back pain

Because we don't know enough about his back pain or his riding position to be able to recommend such specific and extreme adjustments, particularly slamming the saddle.

it probably has nothing whatsoever to do with bumps in the road

I agree with you there.

Pedro77

I think the best is to take the bike to a reputable LBS and have a proper bIke fit that would be kinder to your back. Also changing for wider tyres is good for improving comfort. Regarding tyre pressures, lower tyre pressures will make the tyres soak more of the bumps but you may be a bit more prone to pinch flats. I tend to run my tires above the 110psi mark and don't have any comfort problems on my current bike. On a slightly oversized alu Giant I had it was an horrible experience!!! That is the reason why a bike fit is important. I am riding a size down than what my measurements indicate. For this bike I went to my LBS got measured up and was advised on a M/L size, we tried the size on the shop and I didn't feel comfortable, a bit over stretched... We tried the M size and it was just perfect... My point is theory does not replace actually trying things out as manufacturers advice is a general advice, each individual has different fitness, suppleness and that needs to be taken into account.

Don't give up!!
Pedro

redbikejohn

Update : well I left it for a while to let back recover. Ran on treadmill, mtb and enduro riding.
Have this week achieved my goal to cycle to work! 55 mile round trip on Tuesday. Took tube back for 3/4 of the trip yesterday and today.
115 miles in total this week. Spine is OK but getting some muscle issues in back but I'm thinking the stem is too low. If just hold onto bars with my fingers I'm instantly more comfy.
Butt is painful though!! Need a big soft saddle

redbikejohn

Oh - running tyres at about 85 psi and also taking strain onto legs when bumpy but not so easy on pitch black county roads at night as light hides imperfections.

tangled_metal

BTW buying from a LBS doesn't guarantee good fit, you need a good LBS. I know a few LBS near me I'd never trust getting a bike fitted with. Perhaps a bike fit at a respected bike shop even if you have to travel to get there.

DavidJB

Christ there is some absolutely horrendous advice in this thread.

Runtothehills

redbikejohn wrote:

Butt is painful though!! Need a big soft saddle

A big soft saddle may be worse then the current one for comfort, you need a saddle that is right for you. the saddle on my commuting bike (a hybrid) has a 'big soft saddle' but if I go for a ride over an hour my bum starts to hurt. By comparison my road bike saddle has probably 1/5th of the padding, but is comfortable for rides of 10 hours or more.

ai_1

What he said^^^^

A big soft saddle is comfy to sit on watching TV for a while.
For hours in the saddle the most comfy saddle is likely to be fairly hard but the right shape.
Soft padding puts more pressure on soft tissue and can cause much more discomfort. Good padded shorts will have an appropriate amount of padding and provide the best comfort in combination with an appropriately shaped (for you) saddle of the less padded variety.