New to old 531 - need upgrade advice

sq8r

I recently bought an old hand built Raleigh from the late 80s. I've used it to start doing longer (for me) rides of up to 30 miles - I'm new to cycling for exercise/pleasure. I'm planning to do longer and more frequent rides. At least while the evenings are long and the weather is fair

I'm not entirely happy with my brakes, they are Weinmann side pulls. I'm quite heavy and braking needs quite a bit of advanced planning. I have new brake pads but think I may need to upgrade my brakes. Could anyone suggest where to start? The fittings are the recessed alan key type. If I do change my brakes do I need to change the levers or not?

With this in mind, how about new wheels? My wheels seems quite heavy and neither are totally true. Is it worth trying to source some replacements?

Finally, the group set and chain are pretty old and gunky. Is it worth stripping this down and cleaning everything? My previous experience of doing this is that things never run as smoothly after I've touched them! Maybe I should stick a new chain on and leave it at that. Any links to guides on this kind of work?

Thanks in advance for any help, suggestions or snarky comments

BTW, I bought the retro bike just because I wanted to get started and I didn't know what on earth to buy. I also didn't want to splash out on an expensive new bike to find it just stayed in the shed.

HebdenBiker

Welcome to the world of vintage steel.

Upgrading to modern dual-pivot brakes wouldn't be a bad idea if you're experiencing poor braking performance. Look at the modern Shimano range and decide how much you want to spend. Tiagra would be fine if you're on a budget.

I don't believe there's a mechanical reason why you'd have to change the levers. IIRC the pull ratio is the same. Replace the calipers and see if you get better performance. If not, replace the levers.

With this in mind, how about new wheels? My wheels seems quite heavy and neither are totally true. Is it worth trying to source some replacements?

You will feel the benefit of lighter wheels. Your options are dictated by the type of freehub required. How many gears are you running at the back?

Finally, the group set and chain are pretty old and gunky. Is it worth stripping this down and cleaning everything?

Yes.

Maybe I should stick a new chain on and leave it at that.

Why do you want a new chain? What isn't running smoothly? If your drivetrain is used and worn, replacing the chain on its own is a bad idea as the new chain may not fit properly to the worn chainrings and sprockets.

Any links to guides on this kind of work?

Try this

mattsccm

Depends on your levers. Many calipers have a different pull ration to modern dual pivots. If you levers have hidden cable then you will probably be fine. Exposed cable levers can be more variable. Suck it and see.

JayKosta

You can check with local shop about whether there are better brake pads available - especially if you bought low-cost pads. You might also try using a fingernail file on your pads to de-glaze the portion that contacts the rim.

If you change the chain, you might also need to change the rear freewheel / cassette, because they 'wear into' each other, and a new chain might not work on worn rear gears. Usually the front chainrings will be ok.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

sq8r

HebdenBiker wrote:

Welcome to the world of vintage steel.

Thank you!

Upgrading to modern dual-pivot brakes wouldn't be a bad idea if you're experiencing poor braking performance. Look at the modern Shimano range and decide how much you want to spend. Tiagra would be fine if you're on a budget.

Do I need to consider the 'drop'? From what I've read it would seem that some older bikes need brakes that are 'longer'. How do I check/measure? The wheels are 700c.

You will feel the benefit of lighter wheels. Your options are dictated by the type of freehub required. How many gears are you running at the back?

6 (If it's of any use, it is a Shimano cassette with a Maillard hub, Weinmann rims). I measured the width of the frame where the hub sits and it is in the region of 125mm, possibly 126mm. The problem is that hunting for wheels that have hubs of this width appears not to be straight forward. I have read comments on here about re-setting(?) the width of the frame or just squeezing a larger hub in. I'm not that bothered about moving to a modern cassette/gear set up. I'd just like some lighter/better wheels.

Finally, the group set and chain are pretty old and gunky. Is it worth stripping this down and cleaning everything?

Yes.

Ok, I've started this process.

Maybe I should stick a new chain on and leave it at that.

Why do you want a new chain? What isn't running smoothly? If your drivetrain is used and worn, replacing the chain on its own is a bad idea as the new chain may not fit properly to the worn chainrings and sprockets.

Understood.

Any links to guides on this kind of work?

Try this

Yes, thank you

sq8r

JayKosta wrote:

You can check with local shop about whether there are better brake pads available - especially if you bought low-cost pads. You might also try using a fingernail file on your pads to de-glaze the portion that contacts the rim.

Thanks Jay, the pads are pretty good quality. If I could just get my brakes properly centered I'd be most of the way there...

If you change the chain, you might also need to change the rear freewheel / cassette, because they 'wear into' each other, and a new chain might not work on worn rear gears. Usually the front chainrings will be ok.

Ok, I've started cleaning things up and it's all looking ok. Not too worn. Thanks for your help.

ugo.santalucia

The main issue is the drilling on your frame. If it is drilled for recessed bolts, then it's all good, otherwise, if it is drilled fro exposed nuts you have a problem, as all modern brakes only take recessed bolts.

The second issue is caliper drop length. If your current weinmann are long drop, then your range of options is dramatically reduced, as virtually only Shimano make a pair of good quality long drop calipers.

Lever throw is not a major issue and can be adjusted to get good brasking action in pretty much all cases.

bungalballs

I had a similar problem with brakes - needed very long drop as I've fitted 700c wheels to an old 27 1/4 wheeled frame. I found some tektro r559 calipers from sjs which have a nut fitting - very pleased with them. They have another version with a slightly shorter drop too - possibly good for you?

sq8r

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The main issue is the drilling on your frame. If it is drilled for recessed bolts, then it's all good, otherwise, if it is drilled fro exposed nuts you have a problem, as all modern brakes only take recessed bolts.

The current brakes use recessed bolts, so that's not an issue.

The second issue is caliper drop length. If your current weinmann are long drop, then your range of options is dramatically reduced, as virtually only Shimano make a pair of good quality long drop calipers.

How do I know whether I need long drop or not? What am I measuring?

sq8r

Bungalballs wrote:

I had a similar problem with brakes - needed very long drop as I've fitted 700c wheels to an old 27 1/4 wheeled frame. I found some tektro r559 calipers from sjs which have a nut fitting - very pleased with them. They have another version with a slightly shorter drop too - possibly good for you?

Thanks, I've seen a few mentions of these on the forums here so possibly, yes.

rolf_f

Weinmann side pulls were always a bit duff though I suspect most of your braking problem is down to the pads.

I'd just source better quality period calipers - either Campagnolo or Suntour Superbe (and the latter is exactly what I did do for my 1980 Raleigh). They are not expensive to source and work very nicely with good pads. They come with both allen key and external bolt fittings but you can easily get replacement bolts and fittings from Ebay that will convert them if you end up with the wrong type though obviously the longer bolts can be cut down.

Chains on old bikes last a hell of a long time. No point in changing it without reason.

ugo.santalucia

sq8r wrote:

How do I know whether I need long drop or not? What am I measuring?

The vertical distance between the centre of the fixing bolt and the middle of the pad (when it's at the top and then bottom of the adjusting range).

Monty Dog

Plenty of 126mm OLN rear wheels available if sticking with 6/7 speed, as with chains and freewheels e.g Retrobike or ebay It will cost hundreds to fit a modern transmission. Brakes however are worth upgrading, flexy Weinman calipers and hard rubber pads are awful in comparison to modern brakes. Change levers too.