Nice new wheels for my Scott CR1 SL?

blackpoolkev

I bought a Scott CR1 SL frameset a couple of years ago and built it up with my existing Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheelset.
The Mavic's have served me well but I am now looking to pull the trigger on a new set of better wheels.
I see that the off the shelf CR1 SL comes fitted with Mavic Ksyrium SL, which would suggest that these would be a natural choice. However I am impressed by the reviews of the Campagnolo Shamal Ultra's(Ceramic sealed bearings sound desirable and I have a Campag groupset). Price checking seems to see them come in at a similar price.(£600-£700)
I ride all year round in all weathers, I value reliability over outright performance and use clinchers.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Bozman

I've used a set of SLs for five years and they're strong, light and stiff but then again I've been using Elites too and there isn't that much difference between them.

sloppyschleckonds

If you're happy with the Mavics get some Ksyrium SLR's

Bar Shaker

Bullet Ulras are lovely but beware of the weight of the cheaper ones in the range.

jonny_trousers

I think I've read that Campagnolo are to release a new range of wheels soon so there might be good deals to be had on the older range if you can wait.

intheknowcycling.com

Kev - When you buy a new complete bike you are essentially paying for the quality of the frame and groupset and not for the wheels. The wheels on bikes up to around £3000 are typically all aluminum, shallow section rims with durable hubs but they don't perform to the potential of the frame. They are well-built but not typically ones you are going to be happy with as you look for better performance in your riding. So comparing your potential purchase of a new wheelset with the wheels or price point of wheels on a new CR1 SL may lead you to disappointment if you are looking for 'better wheels'. Mavics are never going to be accused of being a performance wheel. Most Mavics are sold for new bikes; they don't compare well against others in the aftermarket for performance. They are reliable for sure (I've had a pair went nearly 20,000 miles) but you can get better performing wheels that are also reliable. The Shamal Ultra is a good performing and reliable wheel but in that price range there are others worth considering as well. Depending on how much added performance you want and can afford there are better performing all-around wheels worth considering as well. If you can be more specific, we can perhaps provide some other wheels to consider. Steve

mfin

Shamal Ultras can be had for £596.69 at Ribble using TDF10 code, they are in stock as I type in the standard label and dark label decal versions. Great wheels.

Edit: Remember CULT ceramic bearings are not that cheap to replace that's all.

blackpoolkev

Thanks for the replies, it seems that there is approval for both the Mavic's and the Campag's.

mfin wrote:

Shamal Ultras can be had for £596.69 at Ribble using TDF10 code, they are in stock as I type in the standard label and dark label decal versions. Great wheels.

Edit: Remember CULT ceramic bearings are not that cheap to replace that's all.

Should I expect to change the ceramic bearings routinely? I've ridden my Elite's for about 15,000 miles and haven't felt the need to replace the bearings. I was hoping that more expensive wheels would offer similar durability. Thanks for the price tip, if it's a toss-up on performance/reliability, then the best price wins.

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

The Shamal Ultra is a good performing and reliable wheel but in that price range there are others worth considering as well. Depending on how much added performance you want and can afford there are better performing all-around wheels worth considering as well. If you can be more specific, we can perhaps provide some other wheels to consider. Steve

I'm curious about your view that there are other wheels that I should consider. My rides tend to be 30 -60 miles, 3 times per week. Mainly flat roads (it's at least a 40 mile round trip for me to reach the hills of The Forest of Bowland and East Lancs.). I don't race, but like to push as hard as my old (48) body will stand, I am 75kg, 5' 10". My wife reckons £500 is a lot to pay for a pair of wheels so £700 just about keeps the peace.

thegreatdivide

blackpoolkev wrote:

Thanks for the replies, it seems that there is approval for both the Mavic's and the Campag's.

mfin wrote:

Shamal Ultras can be had for £596.69 at Ribble using TDF10 code, they are in stock as I type in the standard label and dark label decal versions. Great wheels.

Edit: Remember CULT ceramic bearings are not that cheap to replace that's all.

Should I expect to change the ceramic bearings routinely? I've ridden my Elite's for about 15,000 miles and haven't felt the need to replace the bearings. I was hoping that more expensive wheels would offer similar durability. Thanks for the price tip, if it's a toss-up on performance/reliability, then the best price wins.

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

The Shamal Ultra is a good performing and reliable wheel but in that price range there are others worth considering as well. Depending on how much added performance you want and can afford there are better performing all-around wheels worth considering as well. If you can be more specific, we can perhaps provide some other wheels to consider. Steve

I'm curious about your view that there are other wheels that I should consider. My rides tend to be 30 -60 miles, 3 times per week. Mainly flat roads (it's at least a 40 mile round trip for me to reach the hills of The Forest of Bowland and East Lancs.). I don't race, but like to push as hard as my old (48) body will stand, I am 75kg, 5' 10". My wife reckons £500 is a lot to pay for a pair of wheels so £700 just about keeps the peace.

I bought a set of Racing Zeroes in Sept 2011 and they're still going strong. Same bearings as Shamals.

jonny_trousers

If I was buying some nice new wheels I'd be tempted to either get some Velocity rims built up or consider pushing the budget to some HED Ardennes. The reviews for both are impressive.

ugo.santalucia

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

If I was buying some nice new wheels I'd be tempted to either get some Velocity rims built up or consider pushing the budget to some HED Ardennes. The reviews for both are impressive.

The Ardennes are nice, but you can spend less and get more out of the same rims. HED hubs are nothing special and overpriced and CX Ray spokes on a shallow profile rim don't bring much to the table.

Dura Ace or Hope hubs are both better than the Sonic...

mfin

blackpoolkev wrote:

Thanks for the replies, it seems that there is approval for both the Mavic's and the Campag's.

mfin wrote:

Shamal Ultras can be had for £596.69 at Ribble using TDF10 code, they are in stock as I type in the standard label and dark label decal versions. Great wheels.

Edit: Remember CULT ceramic bearings are not that cheap to replace that's all.

Should I expect to change the ceramic bearings routinely? I've ridden my Elite's for about 15,000 miles and haven't felt the need to replace the bearings. I was hoping that more expensive wheels would offer similar durability. Thanks for the price tip, if it's a toss-up on performance/reliability, then the best price wins.

No, I was just mentioning it.

mfin

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

Kev - When you buy a new complete bike you are essentially paying for the quality of the frame and groupset and not for the wheels. The wheels on bikes up to around £3000 are typically all aluminum, shallow section rims with durable hubs but they don't perform to the potential of the frame. They are well-built but not typically ones you are going to be happy with as you look for better performance in your riding. So comparing your potential purchase of a new wheelset with the wheels or price point of wheels on a new CR1 SL may lead you to disappointment if you are looking for 'better wheels'. Mavics are never going to be accused of being a performance wheel. Most Mavics are sold for new bikes; they don't compare well against others in the aftermarket for performance. They are reliable for sure (I've had a pair went nearly 20,000 miles) but you can get better performing wheels that are also reliable. The Shamal Ultra is a good performing and reliable wheel but in that price range there are others worth considering as well. Depending on how much added performance you want and can afford there are better performing all-around wheels worth considering as well. If you can be more specific, we can perhaps provide some other wheels to consider. Steve

Sorry, but most of this is just a mixture of stating the obvious, incorrect observations and verbal diarrhoea.

jonny_trousers

mfin wrote:

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

Kev - When you buy a new complete bike you are essentially paying for the quality of the frame and groupset and not for the wheels. The wheels on bikes up to around £3000 are typically all aluminum, shallow section rims with durable hubs but they don't perform to the potential of the frame. They are well-built but not typically ones you are going to be happy with as you look for better performance in your riding. So comparing your potential purchase of a new wheelset with the wheels or price point of wheels on a new CR1 SL may lead you to disappointment if you are looking for 'better wheels'. Mavics are never going to be accused of being a performance wheel. Most Mavics are sold for new bikes; they don't compare well against others in the aftermarket for performance. They are reliable for sure (I've had a pair went nearly 20,000 miles) but you can get better performing wheels that are also reliable. The Shamal Ultra is a good performing and reliable wheel but in that price range there are others worth considering as well. Depending on how much added performance you want and can afford there are better performing all-around wheels worth considering as well. If you can be more specific, we can perhaps provide some other wheels to consider. Steve

Sorry, but most of this is just a mixture of stating the obvious, incorrect observations and verbal diarrhoea.

Not to mention that the OP didn't buy a complete CR1 with stock wheels.

intheknowcycling.com

Whoa, down boys. Kev stated in his initial post that he was thinking about getting the stock Mavics or something near that price that come on new CR1s. So 'stating the obvious' about stock wheels may have not been so obvious to him.

intheknowcycling.com

blackpoolkev wrote:

Thanks for the replies, it seems that there is approval for both the Mavic's and the Campag's.

mfin wrote:

Shamal Ultras can be had for £596.69 at Ribble using TDF10 code, they are in stock as I type in the standard label and dark label decal versions. Great wheels.

Edit: Remember CULT ceramic bearings are not that cheap to replace that's all.

Should I expect to change the ceramic bearings routinely? I've ridden my Elite's for about 15,000 miles and haven't felt the need to replace the bearings. I was hoping that more expensive wheels would offer similar durability. Thanks for the price tip, if it's a toss-up on performance/reliability, then the best price wins.

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

The Shamal Ultra is a good performing and reliable wheel but in that price range there are others worth considering as well. Depending on how much added performance you want and can afford there are better performing all-around wheels worth considering as well. If you can be more specific, we can perhaps provide some other wheels to consider. Steve

I'm curious about your view that there are other wheels that I should consider. My rides tend to be 30 -60 miles, 3 times per week. Mainly flat roads (it's at least a 40 mile round trip for me to reach the hills of The Forest of Bowland and East Lancs.). I don't race, but like to push as hard as my old (48) body will stand, I am 75kg, 5' 10". My wife reckons £500 is a lot to pay for a pair of wheels so £700 just about keeps the peace.

From your initial question to the forum and your response to mine above, it sounds like getting some good, long, hard regular rides in through all weather (and keeping the peace) are higher on your list of priorities than any specific performance goals (e.g., increase your ave speed on the flats from x to y). Those are solid goals and a serious commitment to riding but you can accomplish all of that with your current wheels. Save your money until you have other or more specific performance goals that demand a higher performing wheelset than you have now or want another pair of wheels for other conditions (e.g. riding hilly sportives or doing club racing). Perhaps tune up or replace the hubs if needed. I don't think you'll notice much of a difference in speed from the wheels alone in the price range you are talking about. Of course, better/different training (e.g. adding intervals, training with power) and even another day a week of riding could make you a faster/stronger/healthier rider.

cycleclinic

Ardenes or the begian + rim are nice but 24H drilling is still not available!

Ceramic bearings will not make you faster. Those that have got 15,000 miles out of bearings have not ridden in enough crap weather. All shallow rimmed low spoke count wheels are about as fast as each other in reality. While there some that would disagree but try riding a set of fulcrum racing 7's and those shamals on an indoor track with a power meter so who can hold the same power output and the difference in time you achieve for a set distance will be very small indeed. £500 to £700 can buy who alot of wheel or two sets if you want.

What will make you a bit faster is a wider rims as the tyres will suddenly offer up more grip in the bends. Of course there is a limit to fast you can go on some bends before it gets unsafe. HED, FLO, Zipp and vision? are the only manufacturers who make wheels with wider rims that of course and wheel builder who use after market wider rims.

blackpoolkev

I was looking forward to logging on tonight hoping for a consensus of opinion but wheel choice threads never seem to turn out that way.
I favour factory built wheels because my Elites have served me well and feel that hand built wheels are only as good as the builder not the components. Better the devil you know etc.. Thanks for the input though.

thecycleclinic wrote:

Ceramic bearings will not make you faster.

Am I wrong to think that ceramic bearings run smoother than steel bearings? Please don't spoil the psychological boost that I'm hoping for by telling me that £100 wheels run the same!

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

From your initial question to the forum and your response to mine above, it sounds like getting some good, long, hard regular rides in through all weather (and keeping the peace) are higher on your list of priorities than any specific performance goals (e.g., increase your ave speed on the flats from x to y). Those are solid goals and a serious commitment to riding but you can accomplish all of that with your current wheels. Save your money until you have other or more specific performance goals that demand a higher performing wheelset than you have now.

You're right, but I've got a bit of overtime money that is burning a hole in my pocket and I fancy a new set of wheels.

All things said, I'm leaning towards the Shamal Ultras for £600. The fact that no one has strongly objected to them and they're cheaper than the Mavic's will do for me. The trigger finger is getting itchy!

P.S. Anyone interested in a pair of silver Mavic Ksyrium Elite's with a Campag freehub, only 15,000 miles, £150 before they go on ebay.http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12879561&p=17880330#p17880330.PM me.

jonny_trousers

I don't really get your logic behind the quality of factory wheels being more consistent than hand-builts, but each to his own, I guess.

The only negative I recall reading about the Shamals is that they can be a bit of a pig to fit tyres to.

ugo.santalucia

blackpoolkev wrote:

I favour factory built wheels because my Elites have served me well and feel that hand built wheels are only as good as the builder not the components. Better the devil you know etc.. Thanks for the input though.

That's true to an extent. Even machine laced wheels are generally hand finished and while this guarantees more homogeneous batches than purely hand made ones, there is always an element of difference.

Besides, most wheels you call factory are almost entirely hand built. As for reliability and QC... well just the other day I found a set of Reynolds Strike where the internal nipples were fitted the wrong way round, resulting in bent threads... so even when you buy a big brand, you can end up with severe consistency issues, which go beyond the components used.

Of course Reynolds (or Zipp or other) most experienced builders are probably busy doing the wheels for PRO racers, while the less experienced ones build the wheels that end up on Wiggle