Flow Ex or Arch Ex

The Northern Monkey

Looking for a 2nd wheelset for the canyon.

Got a superstar DH set which I can chuck on for DH days so I want something lighter for everyday.

However, riding will mainly be off piste and generally quite steep, rocky and tough.

Also want to run high volume tyres... 2.3 to 2.5s.

So I cant decide betwee the arch ex or flow ex.

Any views? I never know what to choose when in comes to wheels.

Budget it aroung £300.
I need 20mm front 142x12 rear.

rockmonkeysc

http://www.shop.18bikes.co.uk/products. ... 0s581p2191
How about these? Lighter than Flows but stronger than Arch EX for near enough the same weight. From this shop they come with a Stans tubeless kit free and they will fit the rim tape for free.

felix.london

RockmonkeySC wrote:

http://www.shop.18bikes.co.uk/products.php?plid=m11b0s581p2191
How about these? Lighter than Flows but stronger than Arch EX for near enough the same weight. From this shop they come with a Stans tubeless kit free and they will fit the rim tape for free.

Looks pretty good especially with the Stan's kit thrown in but they ain't lighter than my Flows (not EX) on Switch EVO's

rockmonkeysc

Hope hubs are a little heavier than Superstar and I don't know about yours but my Superstar wheels are heavier than their claimed weight.
There's 30 grammes (per wheel) difference between the Hope Arch EX wheelset and the Hope tech enduro wheels.

The Northern Monkey

Tbh, I dont weigh stuff... as long as its lighter wothout much sacrifice in strength I'm non too fussed!

More worried about running larger tyres, arch is only rated up to 2.3's.

Problem with the 18 bikes ones are theyre too expensive and I'd have to buy adapters on top.

Worth mentioning I'm just over 15st without kit.

Was looking at the ex721 and xm719 rims too..

rockmonkeysc

I was racing DH on EX721's when I was heavier than you. Still using them now with 2.5" muddy marys (huge volume).
I prefer them to Flow EX because they use a harder alloy which resists denting and flat spotting better. They seem to be the rim of choice among DH racers.

The Northern Monkey

only problem is the weight saving isn't great.. the Superstar DH rim is 610g (claimed), EX721 is 590g and the flow is 520g.

Or... there is always the superstar carbon AM wheelset... only 1650g for the pair but they're £400.

The Northern Monkey

I should say, even though the Canyon have the domains, big heavy wheels, DH tubes and tyres... its not actually that heavy.
I ride it single ring and climbed 450m on it on Tuesday... just want to make it easier for some exploring!

supersonic

How about EN521?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mavi ... -prod71050

supersonic

Or if you want the top of the range Mavic:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mavi ... prod111152

The Northern Monkey

Balls.. it was the EN521 I meant, not the EX721!

I think the flow ex is lighter and wider though (just checked their site and its actually 490g). Tougher though?

the 821 is still a narrower rim than the Flow EX, but is lighter.

supersonic

EN521 doesn't use Maxtal alloy so is a bit softer. But Flows are made of the same stuff ie 6061.

Width, well, if you want them that wide! Depends on your tyres and preferences really. Is odd when one of the much touted benefits of 29ers is a longer, narrower contact patch... wider rims make the contact patch shorter and wider ;-).

The Northern Monkey

Width is more about tyre compatibility tbh.. I run big betty 2.5's most of the time which are huuuuuuge!

Using 821's takes the price up to superstar carbon price, which are wider and much lighter..

The Northern Monkey

I lie.. they are £100 cheaper.

supersonic

What do the superstar carbon rims weigh? Nowt on their site.

Would you run 2.5 on a lighter more trail oriented wheelset though?

The Northern Monkey

Yeah I'm not too sure of weight, was just trying to find it myself!

But yeah, ideally I want to be able to run the wider tyre. Anything under 2.5 and it feels a bit "wobbly" lol. I tried some 2.35 nevegals and it was just wrong!

The Northern Monkey

EN821 goes up to 2.5 though, so I reckon that is the rim for me.

supersonic

It's a good rim. However... you do need to use the provided nipple cups, which add more weight so not as light as first seem. Add 40g per rim as I am pretty sure the weight does not include them!

The Northern Monkey

Hmm... so back up to the weight of the flow which is wider!!

supersonic

But less stiff, more prone to denting.

peter413

Flow EX's are plenty tough. Never given me any issues on my AM bike or on the front of a DH bike (never tried on the back) and plenty of DH racers use them with no issues.

Usual tyres I run are 2.3 Butchers and 2.5 Der Kaisers so no issues with tyre size. I'm heavier than you and ride fairly similar stuff by the sounds of it and I'm not known for being easy on wheels.

rockmonkeysc

I have seen more Flow EXs wrecked at DH races than any other wheel. They are really prone to denting. I have seen a few crack around the spoke holes and a few badly taco'd as well. EX721's may be a bit narrower but they are solid.
WTB i25 rims are extremely good but a build on Hope hubs is nearly £400.
Spank Spike 28 race rims are very good as well and light for a dh race rim. No idea how good the Spank hubs are, everyone I know with them uses Hope hubs

peter413

And I've seen far more dented, cracked and taco'd 721's than any other rim both at races and just riding so that's not really saying much about anything, just that a small number of wheels broke. Did you know the correct tyre pressure was used on each dented rim or that the wheel was built properly with each cracked or taco'd rim, doubt it.

Have you ever actually used any Stan's rims personally or is everything you say about them based off things you've seen from random riders?

rockmonkeysc

I had a set of Flows (not EX) and they lasted two races before the rear had a big flat spot and the front was dented enough that it would barely hold a tyre on.
Most dents occur when you puncture in to a rocky trail. EX721s are so popular with racers because they use a harder alloy than almost any other rim. That does cause other issues, like more broken spokes but other than EX729s and WTB i25s I can't think of any tougher rim.
I started using them after destroying various rims (Nukeproof, Sun Ringle, Stans, Spank, Azonic) the mechanic who I use to build them suggested I should either use the EX721, EX823, or EX729 because they are so bombproof.
For anyone who can't afford Deemax's the EX721 is the next best. Not many racers use Stans.

supersonic

The major difference is that the Mavic offerings are deeper - this improves stiffness. Also 'Maxtal' is s a little tougher than the standard 6061 we see on their lower end rims, and all Stans rims.

So yer takes yer choice. Wider and more flexible like stans? Deeper and stiffer like Mavic? (for a given weight). No right or wrong answer really. Your preference.

peter413

Plenty of racers around here use Flow EX's, not so many use 721's any more, most that use Mavic are using Deemax's. 721's are 100g a rim heavier than the Flow EX's as well so I'd hope they've got something going for them since they're narrow in comparison, not tubeless ready and just as expensive. I wouldn't call them the next best thing to Deemax's, ignoring all other things they're not tubeless ready or UST.

What is it that makes the I25's better than the Flow EX because, as you've admitted, you haven't used the Flow EX's so have no personal experience. They're almost identical in weight and width and they've even got similar ERD's.

supersonic wrote:

So yer takes yer choice. Wider and more flexible like stans? Deeper and stiffer like Mavic? (for a given weight). No right or wrong answer really. Your preference.

This pretty much nails it but the Stan's aren't exactly weak which might sound like the case when put in such simple terms. I've never had to true my Flow EX's, something that is rare for me and the rims have had some pretty good hits that didn't even leave a mark let alone a dent. For example going straight into a sharp rock with not enough pressure in my tyre, straight to the rim with a huge bang and not a mark on the rim. Managed to put a slight hole in my tyre because of it though and the Pike's used nearly all of their travel so it wasn't a small hit. Had a few similar hits and none have damaged the rim.

The Northern Monkey

hmm... I'm still swaying towards the EN821 to be honest.