Returned Item - Your Views

meanredspider

I sent back my fault-ridden Garmin 1000 to Sigma Sport. The item was signed for by "T Herman" at the shop - I have the screen grab from the PO device of the signature and printed name.

The good person I'm dealing with at Sigma says she doesn't know the name from the shop and is still trying to find out who accepted it.

Now, I kinda feel like that's Sigma's problem. I sent the item back - it was signed for as received - job done as far as I'm concerned. If Sigma have lost it then that's hardly my fault. I'd like my money back.

Am I right? What are your thoughts?

pangolin

T Herman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney?

I'd agree that's between them and the courier. Don't envy you trying to convince them of that though! Good work getting a screen grab.

veronese68

Yes, they have signed for it so that's down to them now. We occasionally have similar problems at work, generally if something has been signed for there is a bit of a witch hunt and it miraculously appears as people in goods in realise they will get their rears kicked if it isn't found. I can't remmeber an occasion when something hasn't been found, but I'm pretty certain with a proof of delivery we would take the customer's word and issue a credit. We're generally pretty good with returns as we are quite keen on repeat business and customer retention.

supersonic

How old is the item? Did you buy from Sigma Sport? Has it had a fault previously?

meanredspider

supersonic wrote:

How old is the item? Did you buy from Sigma Sport? Has it had a fault previously?

Garmin Edge 1000 - pre-ordered from Sigma - arrived late May. I checked with Sigma before returning it. They said if I wasn't happy with it (the 1000 is riddled with issues) to return it which I did.

meanredspider

Just to say, if the boot was on the other foot and the Garmin had been signed for at my house, I'm sure we wouldn't be discussing if I should pay for it...

supersonic

If it is faulty, you have every right for recourse - and you have evidence of delivery regardless of their claims. However you may not be entitled to a refund - but repair at this stage. Unless they specifically stated they would refund you in the case of a fault, which forms contract.

Repair has to be done in 'a timely' manner. I'd give them two weeks to sort it then take things further.

meanredspider

supersonic wrote:

If it is faulty, you have every right for recourse - and you have evidence of delivery regardless of their claims. However you may not be entitled to a refund - but repair at this stage. Unless they specifically stated they would refund you in the case of a fault, which forms contract.

Repair has to be done in 'a timely' manner. I'd give them two weeks to sort it then take things further.

Thanks. Can't help but laugh about the "timely" bit - this is Garmin we're talking about - I don't know about two weeks to sort all the software/firmware bugs - 2 years might be more realistic

The bit I'm more interested in (as I don't think Sigma are even thinking about a repair) is whether I should be waiting for them to find what they've done with the product. It was signed for on 26th June at 11:55am.

supersonic

I'd gently remind them of the SOGA. They should be well into sorting this by now.

First.Aspect

meanredspider wrote:

Just to say, if the boot was on the other foot and the Garmin had been signed for at my house, I'm sure we wouldn't be discussing if I should pay for it...

What if someone you didn't know had signed for it on your behalf? Someone from a neighbouring address to which something was wrongly delivered, perhaps?

There is another party involved - the courier - and the shop is entitled to make sure they have it. How much was it insured for?

Of course, the second anyone mentions the courier, they'll point at each other and you'll never get it sorted.

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Just to say, if the boot was on the other foot and the Garmin had been signed for at my house, I'm sure we wouldn't be discussing if I should pay for it...

What if someone you didn't know had signed for it on your behalf? Someone from a neighbouring address to which something was wrongly delivered, perhaps?

There is another party involved - the courier - and the shop is entitled to make sure they have it. How much was it insured for?

Of course, the second anyone mentions the courier, they'll point at each other and you'll never get it sorted.

The "courier" is Royal Mail - I have the proof of posting (with the correct address) and the proof of delivery. The whole thing goes to pot if signing for delivery means nothing. If there's someone at my address I don't know, I don't know how that is meant to work - after all, I could sign for everything at my address "Mr F Aspect" and then claim I'd never received the item. I asked Mrs MRS (who posted it for me) to insure it but I guess the PO would claim they delivered it - after all, it's signed for...

First.Aspect

Oh, well, you should have said because the Royal Mail never F*** up.

They once signed on behalf of Mr Greenhouse when I had a complete bike delivered.

I sort of agree with you, but not entirely. What if they come back to you and tell you that no one of that name has ever worked there? All that said, I think I'd turn on the afterburners at this stage and start mentioning all sort of ludicrous things like trading standards and small claims court and the management and the local MP. And the MSP (less persuasive).

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

Oh, well, you should have said because the Royal Mail never F*** up.

They once signed on behalf of Mr Greenhouse when I had a complete bike delivered.

I sort of agree with you, but not entirely. What if they come back to you and tell you that no one of that name has ever worked there? All that said, I think I'd turn on the afterburners at this stage and start mentioning all sort of ludicrous things like trading standards and small claims court and the management and the local MP. And the MSP (less persuasive).

Ha - not suggesting Royal Mail are anything like perfect but they do have a pretty effective tracking system - and Sigma Sport is quite hard to get wrong too.

But, my point is still the same - what point is the signing system if it means nothing? My postie is really anal about it and, unless there is someone home at MY address, it goes back to the sorting office (which is a PITA because it's a 25-mile round trip - ironically that's where I had to go to take delivery of the Garmin in the first place - I could now claim that it wasn't me that signed for it...)

I've already asked Sigma that they refund me while they're hunting around to find who signed for it...

First.Aspect

Are all Garmins crap then? I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 510. Mainly because a Garmin mount is a good place to put a cable box and a GPS avoids cable ties. No other reason.

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

Are all Garmins crap then? I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 510. Mainly because a Garmin mount is a good place to put a cable box and a GPS avoids cable ties. No other reason.

I think the 510 is probably one of the better ones as it's reasonably simple so I think most of the bugs are out of it. My mistake (and, TBH, I went in with my eyes open - kept my old 800 in reserve) was to go for a new and complex device. Garmin launched it a long time before it was ready. But it does mean their customer support people are swamped with complaints so don't go expecting help with your 510 if it goes wrong.

StillGoing

First Aspect wrote:

Are all Garmins crap then? I'm just about to pull the trigger on a 510. Mainly because a Garmin mount is a good place to put a cable box and a GPS avoids cable ties. No other reason.

Garmin aren't swamped with complaints. Remember this is a forum and the people who will voice their opinions of a device are the ones who are having problems. For every one of them there will be several satisfied customers who see no need to mental on a forum. I've had 3 devices and all worked fine. The 1st 705 died with a firmware update and was out of warranty, but Garmin happily swapped it for a replacement refurbished unit and I've had no issues with the 810 that could be attributed to the unit being faulty.

spasypaddy

i've had loads of garmins:
edge 205
edge 705
edge 800
edge 810
forerunner 405cx
forerunner 310xt
forerunner 910xt
vivofit

And apart from the vivofit having an atrocious wristband so that it fell off when i didnt know about it so had to buy another one (which i now have a safety clasp on), i have had few problems. Yes there are tiny bug issues but nothing too major. My only bug bear with the 810 is if i want to do a series of intervals i can't do them as part of a current work out instead i have to stop, save and start a new one. Its not a major problem

Oh and anytime i've had a problem with any device breaking Garmin have been brilliantly helpful!



Back to the question on the thread, i'd say sigma have to refund you.

meanredspider

philthy3 wrote:

Garmin aren't swamped with complaints.

Do you know that for fact? So when they apologise to me for taking 10+ days to reply citing unusually high levels of customer contact, they're fibbing? Either their response standards are incredibly low or they are swamped.

meanredspider

spasypaddy wrote:

i've had loads of garmins:

forerunner 405cx

I'm surprised to see that one in the list and yet you feel happy with it. I got one and went back to my 305 because the 405 was so problematic. 3 colleagues have (had) one and had no end of problems with it. A friend has mine (after her 110 gave up after a year) and is still fighting it. Amongst my circle of friends, Garmin is a company we put up with because there aren't enough good competitors not because they're good at what they do.

Their replacement policy is good though - credit where it's due.

drlodge

meanredspider wrote:

The "courier" is Royal Mail - I have the proof of posting (with the correct address) and the proof of delivery. The whole thing goes to pot if signing for delivery means nothing. If there's someone at my address I don't know, I don't know how that is meant to work - after all, I could sign for everything at my address "Mr F Aspect" and then claim I'd never received the item. I asked Mrs MRS (who posted it for me) to insure it but I guess the PO would claim they delivered it - after all, it's signed for...

SS have had 2 weeks to sort this, I'd say thats more than enough time. I would be telling them to issue the refund immediately otherwise you will be seeking a more formal course of action.

I'm sure Royal Mail have a duty to ensure the item is signed for by someone at the intended destintion, but if its an imposter its with SS to sort out with Royal Mail. Not your problem!

sketchley

MRS I assume you paid for the courier, if so then if RM failed to deliver it's your problem and not Sigma Sport's. It is possible for example that a random person in SS, a customer not an employee signed for it and walked out with it? Alternatively did RM actually deliver to the correct place? If Sigma Sport say it didn't arrive and no one of the name that signed for it works there, then I'd be talking RM to ask if the signature device has a geo location tag to record where it was signed for and ultimately asking them if they can prove it was signed for at Sigma Sport. The other thing I'd be doing is asking SS to check their CCTV for date / time it was signed for to see if they can see the postman arrive and who signed for it.

meanredspider

I'll chase SS today and maybe talk to RM too to see what the score is in situations like this as there must be a procedure.

I wish SS were more like V68's lot - I feel they might be doing more to help here - how long does it take?

meanredspider

It gets slightly complicated in that RM tell me it was picked up from the Teddington delivery office as it was a failed delivery. Does anybody know where the old Sigma Sport web warehouse was? They've moved apparently. RM guy thought that maybe there was a business redirection in place as he thought it odd that the package had ended up at Teddington (even though it's only 1.5 miles from SS)

sketchley

Surely you know where you sent it to? I take it this was the new address not the old one?

sketchley

Hmm. The shop is on the high Street in Hampton Wick which might be served by Teddington sorting office. But the Wharehouse is in Esher which almost certainly isn't. Again what address was it posted to? Also they moved shop on the high street in Hampton Wick a while ago (2 years maybe??) I think this is the shop where the old one was http://www.londonelectricbike.com/ worth a call?

sketchley

Thinking about this some more. It's very unlikely no one was in the shop / wharehouse during business hours to take the delivery so how did the delivery fail? Did RM go to correct location? I'd be asking RM to check with the postman who attempted delivery.

Plus I'm sure you need ID to collect a special deliver or signed for item and the sorting office will have CCTV on the counter.

meanredspider

Sketchley wrote:

Surely you know where you sent it to? I take it this was the new address not the old one?

Of course. It was sent to the correct shop address. But they've changed their web fulfilment address to Esher - it used to be somewhere else. But I guess that Teddington could well be the correct office - after all, it's very close.

meanredspider

Sketchley wrote:

Thinking about this some more. It's very unlikely no one was in the shop / wharehouse during business hours to take the delivery so how did the delivery fail? Did RM go to correct location? I'd be asking RM to check with the postman who attempted delivery.

Plus I'm sure you need ID to collect a special deliver or signed for item and the sorting office will have CCTV on the counter.

Yes - RM said to check one more time with SS (with the new knowledge it was collected). Given it was small, it could well have been with the regular (letter) postman, in which case it could well have been delivered outside normal opening hours (before 9am). If SS still can't work it out, RM will start an investigation with the delivery office.

bendertherobot

If you've sent it to the right address then the only explanations are that the card was put in the wrong address (and that someone else now has a slightly buggy Garmin) OR a person from Sigma has picked it up and it's lost in the system.

Whichever way, sounds to me as if you'll be fine in the end. You've covered by the SD insurance and, clearly, some error has occurred.

meanredspider

They've found it and are arranging a refund

veronese68

Good, about time too. I don't suppose they said where it was.