Headphones while commuting

damocles10

pmorgan1 wrote:

All, appreciate if you help me understand 2 things that I have failed to grasp so far.

1. How do people commute by bike while wearing headphones? I thought a significant part of road awareness comes through the ears.

Natural selection eventually takes it's course.

iPete

damocles10 wrote:

pmorgan1 wrote:

All, appreciate if you help me understand 2 things that I have failed to grasp so far.

1. How do people commute by bike while wearing headphones? I thought a significant part of road awareness comes through the ears.

Natural selection eventually takes it's course.

Really?

BobMcbob

I'll occasionally use earphones on training rides on quiet roads, don't have the volume too loud so can still hear other noises pretty well.

Personally, I never use them on the commute into London. This is a different ball game. You need all your senses to be at 100%, especially with so many cretins on the road - and whatever your arguement, for me having something in your ears impedes this.

It's none of my business though if others want to ear headphones or not!

Avenger197396

Not sure why people need rules and definitive answers all the tIme. We're all adults and can make our own judgments. I work in one of the emergency services and we are very keen on the "dynamic risk assessment." It's a new term for common sense. In assessing the risk in cycling a control measure could be full leathers, full face helmet and a man with a red flag in front. Clearly it's not realistic therefore we apply more sensible control measures which help proportionately reduce the risk like a helmet and not wearing earphones. However, in my judgement, the risk in wearing head phones is greater in the city than a very quiet country lane on a Tuesday morning. Of course there are some risks but my desire to listen to some music and enjoy myself on said Tuesday means I'm prepared to assume some risk. My decision, I'll take responsibility. If they make it against the law then I won't. I'm the same with helmets, (someone should start a thread 8) ) I usually wear one on the road bike but if I'm only pootling along to the post office on my mountain bike at 3mph I don't. In 20 years I've never been called to an incident where a cyclist said "if only I'd not been wearing earphones" but plenty where they had jumped lights, got too close to wagons at lights, gone too fast, hit pot holes, hit the kerb, hit diesel, fainted, had heart attacks, had parts fail etc etc. You can't eradicate risk but trying to too much just takes away the enjoyment.

chris_bass

Avenger197396 wrote:

Not sure why people need rules and definitive answers all the tIme. We're all adults and can make our own judgments. I work in one of the emergency services and we are very keen on the "dynamic risk assessment." It's a new term for common sense. In assessing the risk in cycling a control measure could be full leathers, full face helmet and a man with a red flag in front. Clearly it's not realistic therefore we apply more sensible control measures which help proportionately reduce the risk like a helmet and not wearing earphones. However, in my judgement, the risk in wearing head phones is greater in the city than a very quiet country lane on a Tuesday morning. Of course there are some risks but my desire to listen to some music and enjoy myself on said Tuesday means I'm prepared to assume some risk. My decision, I'll take responsibility. If they make it against the law then I won't. I'm the same with helmets, (someone should start a thread 8) ) I usually wear one on the road bike but if I'm only pootling along to the post office on my mountain bike at 3mph I don't. In 20 years I've never been called to an incident where a cyclist said "if only I'd not been wearing earphones" but plenty where they had jumped lights, got too close to wagons at lights, gone too fast, hit pot holes, hit the kerb, hit diesel, fainted, had heart attacks, had parts fail etc etc. You can't eradicate risk but trying to too much just takes away the enjoyment.

This sort of completely rationale and entirely reasonable response has no place on the internet!!

Avenger197396

I don't know what came over me. I apologise.

Londonscottish

Juddlinski wrote:

I wear headphones and listen to a soundtrack of random car noises. Now that I come to think of it, it's really annoying.

Try listening to the sounds of electric vehicles. Very relaxing.

notnot

When I'm going at a decent pace I can't hear much road noise anyway - just the wind rushing past. Something to do with ear shape? :roll:

I don't find earphones comfortable to wear on the bike, but don't imagine they'd make much difference to my safety. I can understand that it might be useful to hear if a car's behind and trying to overtake, but on city roads if I've taken the lane so as to make it harder to overtake that's normally because there's not space for a safe overtake anyway.

tangled_metal

Well I wear the full, cover the ears headphones. It means I can't hear traffic or wear a helmet when out on my fixie with no brakes. I have one question though, why are motorists so angry when I go through junctions? It's like they don't know cyclists don't have to wait at red lights.

Seriously though, they might not be a risk or they might be. Helmets might help or not. Fixie without brakes might be dangerous or their riders might get into accidents more or not. Your own choices and you have to make them work for you. I don't wear headphones or listen to music on my bike but do in the car (definitely a higher risk as I've felt I've had a few near misses due to the radio). I don't wear helmet these days. I've never had any serious incidents on a bike and made the choice not to wear one.

My issue with hearing when on a bike is irrelevant as I struggle to hear anything when there is background noise. If you and I were sat at the side of a motorway talking I would not be able to make out what you had said even if I was 1 foot in front of you. I've been tested and have hearing in the normal range but I still have this problem.

It means I've coped by other means. I'm of the firm belief that the scientific view that we have at least 7 senses is true. One of these is an awareness of your surroundings I think. It is that sense that I must be using. I have an instinctive sense there's something behind me and I turn round to see a car I never heard. Just one example.

Listening to music certainly impairs pedestrians on mixed paths. I've used my bell before and amazingly got a reaction from a headphone wearing pedestrian when he moved over whilst looking round. Trouble was he had heard my bell but could not judge where behind him I was which side of the path I was. Noise could be heard but it seems not from which direction. This is part of a phenomenon rescue services knew about decades ago when they discovered their sirens could be heard but there was not a good sense of the direction the sirens had come from. Not good at junctions. That is why the nee naaw disappeared in favour of a more varied siren with more notes. Plus the extra noise they can make that sounds harsher that is reserved for junctions or places of higher danger/risk. The noise you hear might not have the right element to it to allow for a sense of its direction. I'm sure music also affects your understanding of the hazards indicated by noise. Just the view/feeling I have on this

damocles10

notnot wrote:

When I'm going at a decent pace I can't hear much road noise anyway - just the wind rushing past. Something to do with ear shape? :roll:

I don't find earphones comfortable to wear on the bike, but don't imagine they'd make much difference to my safety. I can understand that it might be useful to hear if a car's behind and trying to overtake, but on city roads if I've taken the lane so as to make it harder to overtake that's normally because there's not space for a safe overtake anyway.

You can hear traffic with wind noise as you are still connected to your spatial environment. If someone is CUTOFF to this via headphones listening to their fav tunes they are not likely to hear what is happening around them ( this is obvious )... For me it is the same as drivers using a mobile phones while driving. This should be treated in the way if there is an accident in term of liability.

the_hundredth_idiot

Worth adding this to the debate - hardly proof but interesting findings.
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/cyclists-with-ipods-hear-the-same-as-motorists-listening-to-nothing/013329

I do sometimes wear headphones when cycling - I've never found they stop me hearing what's going on around me. Having said that, I don't wear them if I felt they were distracting me - say in heavy traffic - but that's more to do with the distraction of the music than not being able to hear (and I turn down the stereo in the car in similar situations).

squired

One thing that people should be aware of is the fact that long term exposure to the noise of busy traffic in a city (i.e. from a daily commute) is sufficient to damage your hearing. Riding without anything in your ears could potentially be causing you damage. Personally I almost always ride with something in mine just to protect my ears a little. Ninety nine percent of the time I use something like cotton wool and occasionally in-ear headphones that are not actually plugged into anything.

markhewitt1978

Chris Bass wrote:

just out of curiosity, can anyone name a time when hearing a car made them safer? Or hearing a car meant it didnt hit them?

Yes; the last time I was out cycling, and the time before that, and every other time before that.

BobMcbob

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:just out of curiosity, can anyone name a time when hearing a car made them safer? Or hearing a car meant it didnt hit them?



Yes; the last time I was out cycling, and the time before that, and every other time before that.

+1

iPete

BobMcbob wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:just out of curiosity, can anyone name a time when hearing a car made them safer? Or hearing a car meant it didnt hit them?



Yes; the last time I was out cycling, and the time before that, and every other time before that.

+1

What did you do differently, ride out from the curb, move in or dive into a bush? I assume this is vs someone with volume set to 11 in both ears.

KerSplosh

I'd just like to add my own 2p to this list from here in Stockholm. It is quite normal for people here to cycle with headphones - often talking on their mobiles as well (talking on your mobile is legal in Sweden in cars too) - however motorists in the city centre are generally courteous and tend to stay back from cyclists if you ride on the road (*sometimes* there are no cycle paths).

I can imagine that if you were on a long ride on straight roads, all the time listening to music might help break the boredom ? - but since my teenage years Ive never ridden with headphones. Too much to see and hear..

Completely off topic, its going to be a shame to return to commuting in London next year. Riding to work here is such a joy by comparison (and I do like riding to work in London!).

notnot

I noticed someone riding while chatting on the phone (with a handsfree kit) for the first time last week. They really weren't paying attention to what was going on around them...

mangetout_rodney

I used to ride with headphones all the time- nothing terrible happened but I was lucky and I used shoulder checks and 'lifesavers' (in motorcycle training parlance).
I don't do it anymore as I figured that eventually my luck would run out.

Avenger197396

Sevendeadly wrote:

I used to ride with headphones all the time- nothing terrible happened but I was lucky and I used shoulder checks and 'lifesavers' (in motorcycle training parlance).
I don't do it anymore as I figured that eventually my luck would run out.

By extension " I used to ride a bicycle/go swimming/drive a car/fly/walk/disco dance - nothing terrible happened but I was lucky. I don't do it anymore as I figured that eventually my luck would run out." 8)

mangetout_rodney

Avenger197396 wrote:

Sevendeadly wrote:

I used to ride with headphones all the time- nothing terrible happened but I was lucky and I used shoulder checks and 'lifesavers' (in motorcycle training parlance).
I don't do it anymore as I figured that eventually my luck would run out.

By extension " I used to ride a bicycle/go swimming/drive a car/fly/walk/disco dance - nothing terrible happened but I was lucky. I don't do it anymore as I figured that eventually my luck would run out." 8)

Oh, sorry am I not allowed to make a personal decision anymore?
Silly me.

Avenger197396

Course you can. I would just hope you would base it on more than the concept of "luck." I make my decisions based on a whole number of different factors such as risk, control measures, variables, and tangible things I can influence and things I can't. If I listed luck as a factor to take into account in a risk assessment at work I would be the target of some merriment to say the least.

My disdain is not for those who make personal decisions, it's towards those who can't get through life without having to have fast and hard rules for everything. I just wish people would grow a pair and make their own decisions without having to canvass the opinions of four hundred people. Risk IS acceptable, people just need to have the common sense to decide how much on a case by case basis.

mangetout_rodney

I don't believe I laid out any rules for anyone- people can do what they want.
I just stopped using headphones while I cycle on public roads.

Risk is a tricky though- sure you could get run over walking to the shops, but having done a lot of motorcycle training in the last few years I changed my approach to road cycling.
Again, not telling anyone what they should do- I just changed my own approach.

When I say luck, I don't really mean luck- I really mean the statistical risk based on having one of my senses less able to observe my surroundings.

If I was hit by another cyclist listening to music or riding while playing candy crush I'd not be pleased- but that is pretty unlikely too.

the_hundredth_idiot

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

just out of curiosity, can anyone name a time when hearing a car made them safer? Or hearing a car meant it didnt hit them?

Yes; the last time I was out cycling, and the time before that, and every other time before that.

I can't think of a time when I used my hearing to avoid an accident. I can imagine it is possible in theory but I can't think it has ever happened to me in practice.

If hearing is that important for cyclist safety, we're all screwed when electric cars become popular.

Having said that, I do find that listening to music or podcasts can be distracting, much like talking on a phone. I can still hear outside noise when I've got headphones on (in fact, I've bought noise-isolating ones for use on the train deliberately to block out external noise because normal headphones let in too much) so it is more the distraction of what I'm listening too rather than the blocking out of external noise. Same applies when I'm driving or walking but, for some reason, fewer people seem concerned about the effect on drivers and pedestrians.