Saracen Avro, carbon frame, discs and bolt through

veronese68
veronese68 Posts: 27,830
edited November 2014 in Road general
Just seen this and I must say I like it.
Kinesis Pro6
Marin Nail Trail
Cotic Solaris
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Comments

  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Nice. What's the benefit of the bolt-through quick release? Does that mean it can't be used with conventional QR wheels (I'm guessing not)?

    Would be very interested if it's available as a frameset and doesn't cost the earth.
  • lawrences
    lawrences Posts: 1,011
    Bolt through is stiffer and stronger. For all those times you've wished your skewer was stiffer...

    Would be a weird choice to buy as a frame set considering you'd need to get the wheels custom built on mountain bike hubs.

    It does look like a cool choice if you're looking for something different though.
  • homers_double
    homers_double Posts: 8,293
    It's about time this side caught up with the fact that discs are a massive improvement!

    As for the bolt through, stiffer and stronger as the forces generated around the disc/ fork are massive. It'll prevent a MAMIL ripping his wheels out of a drop out at 40mph.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    lawrences wrote:
    Bolt through is stiffer and stronger. For all those times you've wished your skewer was stiffer...

    Would be a weird choice to buy as a frame set considering you'd need to get the wheels custom built on mountain bike hubs.

    Funnily enough that is exactly what I have just done - Archetype rims on Shimano XT hubs. I've got 2014 Fuji Sportif 1.1 which is a road bike with disc brakes, I've also upgraded the brakes to Spyres. The frameset is a bit heavy and a bit upright, so this would definitely interest me
  • lawrences
    lawrences Posts: 1,011
    TimothyW wrote:
    lawrences wrote:
    Bolt through is stiffer and stronger. For all those times you've wished your skewer was stiffer...

    Would be a weird choice to buy as a frame set considering you'd need to get the wheels custom built on mountain bike hubs.

    Funnily enough that is exactly what I have just done - Archetype rims on Shimano XT hubs. I've got 2014 Fuji Sportif 1.1 which is a road bike with disc brakes, I've also upgraded the brakes to Spyres. The frameset is a bit heavy and a bit upright, so this would definitely interest me

    Sounds good. I think the bolt through moving onto a road bike is actually a step in the right direction for discs it's just you have to deal the the annoyance of being a trendsetter and having a few years of limited wheel set choice.

    For my riding V's do me fine. Wouldn't say no to this bike though especially since I love the name.
  • d_o_g
    d_o_g Posts: 286
    Do want.
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    Good on Saracen for getting the ball rolling. Looks like it could be an awesome commuter/all weather bike. My experience of those Tektro brakes, though, is that they're a pain in the backside. Definitely worth the extra to go for a better alternative.

    I do still think disc brakes on a road bike look ugly, but I'm sure it'll just be a matter of getting used to them.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Anyone bought one yet? I'm this (pinches finger and thumb together) close to buying...

    Only thing holding me back is the frame doesn't have clearance for 28mm tyres (as supplied) with mudguards, so I'd have to change to 25mm at point of sale. I really like the idea of running 28mm.

    Thoughts anyone?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    It's just a road bike with discs and all the drawbacks of a road bike... terrible clearance and poor tyre choice. I have ridden CX bixes for the past 5 years and I really don't see the point in going back to a full on race bike, especially so if you want discs. The trend is for bigger and bigger tyres, which makes increasing sense in a country with poor road surface and these bikes with no clearance are born already obsolete. Bolt through is just a gimmick
    left the forum March 2023
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Seems like there's always a fly in the ointment ;)

    What about Whyte Cornwall?
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    It's just a road bike with discs and all the drawbacks of a road bike... terrible clearance and poor tyre choice. I have ridden CX bixes for the past 5 years and I really don't see the point in going back to a full on race bike, especially so if you want discs. The trend is for bigger and bigger tyres, which makes increasing sense in a country with poor road surface and these bikes with no clearance are born already obsolete. Bolt through is just a gimmick

    Er, this is the Road General forum - perhaps he wants an actual road bike? You know, with all the drawbacks but also the associated positives :lol:

    For what it's worth though, I've given up and bought a Kinesis Crosslight frameset, Road disc framesets still seem to be a bit of a barren selection, and the varying standards make it a bit of a minefield.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,830
    TimothyW wrote:
    For what it's worth though, I've given up and bought a Kinesis Crosslight frameset, Road disc framesets still seem to be a bit of a barren selection, and the varying standards make it a bit of a minefield.
    You won't be disappointed. With road tyres I'm sure the speed difference between that and a pure road bike is negligible, certainly for someone like me. Plus you have the option of sticking fat knobbly tyres on to go offroad if you feel like getting mucky.
    The Crosslight has what is probably the most common component specs in terms of quick release and 135mm rear hub so getting parts for it will never be an issue.
    I still quite like the Saracen, but wouldn't get rid of the Crosslight for it as it is so much more versatile.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    FWIW - my alu cross bike with road tyres on is as fast as my carbon road bike.

    If you think back to the olympics - the team GB road bikes had big clearances round the tyres - looks odd - but its there for a reason.

    If the Avro had bigger clearances - itd be interesting - its missed a trick - even if it does look nice.
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    If you think back to the olympics - the team GB road bikes had big clearances round the tyres - looks odd - but its there for a reason.

    What frames were they?

    As most road frames only take 28mm at most they must of had some special custom made ones if they were wider?
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Er yeah - it was their secret squirrel kit. Maybe it was a turbulence reducing thing ?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    TimothyW wrote:

    Er, this is the Road General forum - perhaps he wants an actual road bike? You know, with all the drawbacks but also the associated positives :lol:

    That's not the point... road bikes are limited in the clearance by the calipers... long drop calipers are not very good, hence the restriction. You want more clearanc,e you need to think about how you will redesign the calipers. Disc frames don't have this limitation, therefore insisting on a tight clearance is a bit like shooting yourself in the bollox... there is absolutely no reason to do so. It's an overlook, a mistake, it has no associated positives whatsoever and for what concerns me it's a dead end
    left the forum March 2023
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    I think you're right Ugo. I simply cannot understand making a disc compatible frame then ensuring the clearances are 'just' enough.
  • Ber Nard
    Ber Nard Posts: 827
    I disagree. I'm quite tempted by this as it's the closest bike to fit my idea of a do-it-all road bike.

    I know I won't run bigger tyres than 25s so I don't want a bike that can take cross tyres as it will look gappy but I will run mudgaurds. I don't want "sportive" geometry and the associated short top tubes and massive head tubes. I want more aggressive geometry rather than relaxed as I want the bike to be engaging.

    The geometry is the only thing concerning me. The website has it down as having parallel 73 degrees angles but all the first-look reviews talk about it being slack.

    I think my LBS is getting one in so I'll definitely take a look.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    Ber Nard wrote:
    I disagree. I'm quite tempted by this as it's the closest bike to fit my idea of a do-it-all road bike.

    Yeah, but your idea of a DIT bike is one that actually doesn't do anything more than any other road bike... I have been on disc brakes for 5 years and it's not that discs alone allow you to do things you wouldn't be able to do with calipers... it's the tyres that allow you that freedom
    left the forum March 2023
  • Ber Nard
    Ber Nard Posts: 827
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Ber Nard wrote:
    I disagree. I'm quite tempted by this as it's the closest bike to fit my idea of a do-it-all road bike.

    Yeah, but your idea of a DIT bike is one that actually doesn't do anything more than any other road bike... I have been on disc brakes for 5 years and it's not that discs alone allow you to do things you wouldn't be able to do with calipers... it's the tyres that allow you that freedom

    25mm slicks allow me to do everything I would ever want to do on the road. It wouldn't replace my MTB, CXer or even my touring bike but it would replace all of my road bikes.
  • Dippydog3
    Dippydog3 Posts: 414
    My latest road bike has discs, big wheel clearance, through bolted axles and 30mm tyres. After 1000km on it my view is this, based on my needs.

    Discs. Better braking, A little more faff to maintain than pads. Overall a plus.
    Big wheel clearance. More versatile, easier to clean. Overall a plus.
    Through bolted axles. More rigid, safer, slower to change wheel, ideally should be torqued, needs a tool to remove. Overall a negative.
    30mm tyres. Lower pressure so more comfortable, good puncture resistance, possibly a little less aero and a little slower. Overall a neutral. Good in winter, bad in summer.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    Ber Nard wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Ber Nard wrote:
    I disagree. I'm quite tempted by this as it's the closest bike to fit my idea of a do-it-all road bike.

    Yeah, but your idea of a DIA bike is one that actually doesn't do anything more than any other road bike... I have been on disc brakes for 5 years and it's not that discs alone allow you to do things you wouldn't be able to do with calipers... it's the tyres that allow you that freedom

    25mm slicks allow me to do everything I would ever want to do on the road. It wouldn't replace my MTB, CXer or even my touring bike but it would replace all of my road bikes.

    So it's not a a Do it all bike... call it for what it is: it's just a road bike that does road bike duties
    left the forum March 2023
  • Undertones
    Undertones Posts: 52
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Ber Nard wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Ber Nard wrote:
    I disagree. I'm quite tempted by this as it's the closest bike to fit my idea of a do-it-all road bike.

    Yeah, but your idea of a DIA bike is one that actually doesn't do anything more than any other road bike... I have been on disc brakes for 5 years and it's not that discs alone allow you to do things you wouldn't be able to do with calipers... it's the tyres that allow you that freedom

    25mm slicks allow me to do everything I would ever want to do on the road. It wouldn't replace my MTB, CXer or even my touring bike but it would replace all of my road bikes.

    So it's not a a Do it all bike... call it for what it is: it's just a road bike that does road bike duties

    You'd have everyone on a hybrid if you had it your way though.
  • Ber Nard
    Ber Nard Posts: 827
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Ber Nard wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Ber Nard wrote:
    I disagree. I'm quite tempted by this as it's the closest bike to fit my idea of a do-it-all road bike.

    Yeah, but your idea of a DIA bike is one that actually doesn't do anything more than any other road bike... I have been on disc brakes for 5 years and it's not that discs alone allow you to do things you wouldn't be able to do with calipers... it's the tyres that allow you that freedom

    25mm slicks allow me to do everything I would ever want to do on the road. It wouldn't replace my MTB, CXer or even my touring bike but it would replace all of my road bikes.

    So it's not a a Do it all bike... call it for what it is: it's just a road bike that does road bike duties

    Yes, as I said: a do-it-all road bike.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    Undertones wrote:
    You'd have everyone on a hybrid if you had it your way though.

    You are narrow minded...

    the new crop of road tyres come in 28 and now even 30 is becoming a popular size... if you can't use them because you have a stupidly tight clearance you are missing out, simple as that.You can ignore it, but you are missing out on a better tyre... fact
    left the forum March 2023
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Seems that the Whyte Cornwall has clearance for 28mm tyres and mudguards.
  • janwal
    janwal Posts: 489
    Trek Domane disc.Comfy carbon frame,TRP hy/rd brakes,plenty of clearance for bigger tyres and takes guards.Love mine,a top winter bike.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    I've ruled out the Whyte Cornwall and the Saracen Avro and finally ordered a Kinesis Tripster ATR. I've had many bikes over the years I've been riding (all my life), but this one looks a bit special. Very difficult to find anyone saying anything negative about them.

    I'll be ordering a spare set of wheels and tyres for CX, but it will spend most of its life on the road and commuting.
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    dodgy wrote:
    I've ruled out the Whyte Cornwall and the Saracen Avro and finally ordered a Kinesis Tripster ATR. I've had many bikes over the years I've been riding (all my life), but this one looks a bit special. Very difficult to find anyone saying anything negative about them.

    I'll be ordering a spare set of wheels and tyres for CX, but it will spend most of its life on the road and commuting.

    It looks like a very interesting bike. I read a great review of it at road.cc. The only criticism they had was that there was a touch of judder under front braking that they put down to the fork. I was tempted for a while, but it's a bit too all-terrain for my needs and Kinesis tell me the Granfondo Ti will be coming out with disc capabilities next year. Could be awesome.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,317
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    ... the Granfondo Ti will be coming out with disc capabilities next year. Could be awesome.

    That if you believe in the titanium blurb... they're just tubes welded together... there is really nothing about titanium that stands out, nothing you would be able to measure with any instrument a bit more sensitive than your joints... but if you ask those who spent 3 K on a titanium frame, it's amazing! (As most folks who spent 3 K on frame feel compelled to say, in fairness)... it is a case of "money buying you happiness" even if it's only an illusion to last until the following spring, when the amazement wears out and the new amazing thing rolls in... "stainless"!!!
    left the forum March 2023

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