Would it be illegal if i undertook using a cycle lane here?

russboy

So basically cycling along this cycle lane on my commute to work this morning:
 
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.33100 ... e0!6m1!1e1
 
………when a car turns across me into a company car park where the big black gates are. I have video footage to view back when I get home tonight but as I far as I remember she did not indicate at all & just simply pulled across me. Thankfully due to the dropped kerb I went up onto the path & as I had shouted at her she stopped so I just managed to get the bike round the front of her car, rather than going across the bonnet!
 
I wasn’t undertaking her as she was moving faster than me but on any cycle lane is undertaking permitted within the law? It just got me thinking really.

Cheers,

Russ
 

macleod113

from what I can see she should have been aware of other traffic around her and taken appropriate action to wait for you.

was there a build up of traffic, slow moving? I generally go up the inside of cars (not busses or anything transit size or bigger) if safe to do so.

it looks like it may have been a SMIDSY moment. hope she keeps her eyes open in future. Did she apologise or get angry with the silly commuter on her road?

markhewitt1978

IMO that 'lane' should not be there in the first place, it's 'lanes' like that which make the situation significantly worse for cyclists as it basically consists of no width whatsoever so drivers treat it as if it isn't there.

In general drivers don't treat cycle lanes as a second lane, if you were in Lane 2 of a motorway you wouldn't just turn left without checking.

russboy

No, there was no other traffic around.
 
I think the key was she didn’t use her mirrors as she didn’t see me, then she didn’t use her indicators as I would have braked.
 
The question really is would I legally be entitled to continue down the cycle lane no matter what speed the traffic is doing, i.e if I were to undertake them. After all isn’t that partially what a cycle lane is there for? Again, what does the law say on that?

slowbike

Russboy wrote:

The question really is would I legally be entitled to continue down the cycle lane no matter what speed the traffic is doing, i.e if I were to undertake them. After all isn’t that partially what a cycle lane is there for? Again, what does the law say on that?

I think the question of speed is more about if it's sensible rather than if you're entitled ..

eg, technically if the left hand lane of a motorway is stationery, you can still do up to 70mph in the middle or outside lane. But - is it sensible?

As far as overtaking/undertaking, In a vehicle if the traffic is queueing then you're entitled to proceed along your lane at the speed of the traffic in your lane - you're not expected to stop and wait for the cars on your right to pull into your lane.
If you think about it, bus lanes are there to allow buses to get through queueing traffic quickly therefore it follows that anyone entitled to use that lane can do likewise.

However, bus lanes (and some cycle lanes) are usually bounded by a solid white line - not the dotted one seen in the google street view above. So I would think that if you're travelling faster than a vehicle in the right lane then you should NOT undertake it using that broken white line "lane" - unless there is a queue of vehicles - and then you should proceed at appropriate speed.

Pufftmw

It is not an offense to undertake per se. However, it should be done with caution as you might not be where a reasonable person my expect you to be. In traffic however, it would be reasonable to expect that cyclists and other vehicles that tend to use the left hand side of the road might be there, so take precautions. In fact, if I recall, anyone making a lane change, turn or other manoeuvre needs to take care that their change of direction/lane will not conflict with another road user. IE the onus is on the person doing the maneuvering.

monkimark

Undertaking isn't illegal as such. There's a discretionary statement in the highway code but that's it.

Highway Code 163: You should only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so. In the case of a cycle lane you could argue the vehicle is in fact in a different lane.

Likewise the car shouldn't overtake if they're about to turn left
Highway code 167:167 DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example.....stay behind if you are following a cyclist approaching a roundabout or junction, and you intend to turn left


in your case it wasn't an undertake anyway by the sounds of it, it was a 'left hook' as the driver overtook you before braking and turning across you.

owenlars

If she was in front of you at all times before she turned left then I believe the onus is on you to overtake/undertake safely. If she overtook you and then pulled left across you, the onus is on her to make sure she is far enough ahead of you to be safe.
I think, from what you said, that she was going slowly and you went up the inside going faster than her. If that is right I can't help but think it was your problem not hers, whether signalling or not signalling.

russboy

owenlars wrote:

If she was in front of you at all times before she turned left then I believe the onus is on you to overtake/undertake safely. If she overtook you and then pulled left across you, the onus is on her to make sure she is far enough ahead of you to be safe.
I think, from what you said, that she was going slowly and you went up the inside going faster than her. If that is right I can't help but think it was your problem not hers, whether signalling or not signalling.

I didn’t undertake her though I was behind her, albeit in the cycle lane on the left, she then turned left, without indicating. So I was given no prior warning of her intentions & as such had no reason to apply my brakes to allow her manoeuvre.
 
Also to clarify she didn’t pull left, i.e into my lane, she turned left, i.e a sharp left turn into the car park.
 
In respect of where she overtook me, if she did at all I will have to look at the video clip when I get home tonight, I seem to recall all that happened was I caught them up as they were travelling at a slower speed than me, however the next I know is I am having to swerve left onto the pavement & around the bonnet of her car as she pulled into the car park.

owenlars

In that case her problem not yours

fatsmoker

Who's in the right or wrong is immaterial. She's not getting hurt if she left hooks you, you are. If you're undertaking, whether in a cycle lane or not, be careful by not going so fast that you can't stop or avoid left-turning traffic. You get used to the roads where this is more likely to happen. You were lucky that you weren't a metre or so further along the road. Shame the silly mare on YouTube or may be if she works at the company with the black gates leave a note on her windscreen.

Simontheintrepid

I have been wondering about the undertaking thing myself as I had an incident a few weeks ago. At the time I blamed the driver and I think strictly speaking (correct me if I'm wrong) I was entitled to be where I was. But I have some sympathy for him.

So, I was heading north along this road (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.43860 ... !2e0?hl=en) which was busier than the Google image here. A bus was at the stop and I went down the inside of the stationary cars behind it. There was no room to overtake. When I reach the turning beside the Co-Op I realise too late that the guy beside me has let a car coming the other way turn right into it, and it hits me. Apart from a scratch to the car and my leg, we avoided any serious consequences and went on our way.

Strictly speaking, I think that as he had to cross the other lane to get to where he's going, he's at fault. However, it would have been hard to see me coming given my positioning. There's also no cycle lane on this road so no obvious place I'm supposed to be. I can accept that I should have been more careful and that as it didn't look like a proper road (it just leads to a car park), on that day it didn't occur to me to treat it like one. I also think that the guy that flashed to let him in should have taken more care to check if anything's coming. I'm not saying I was blameless in this particular scenario, just that I don't think cyclists figure in most motorists minds a lot of the time.

On busy roads like this I sometimes find undertaking unavoidable, and have angered motorists (usually if they're suddenly making manoeuvres because they're stuck in traffic) for both under and overtaking. I just don't know where I'm supposed to be sometimes. Thoughts?

russboy

Lol, wouldn't you know it the file is corrupt!! Managed to record my uneventful journey home as I charged it at work, but that's no bloody use!

Oh well no harm done, will have to put it down to experience!

Lesson learnt to charge it up more often as well.

Initialised

@ Russboy:

On that road I wouldn't be using the cycle lane as it is too narrow to be fit for purpose.

Only use it to filter if you are going to be turning left shortly.

The lane is narrow so you should be in primary unless the opposite lane is clear allowing faster traffic to pass you safely. Riding defensively and assertively is the best way to prevent left hooks, SMIDSYs and close passes.

@Simonintrepid:

Pass on the right by default.

Only pass on the left in queueing traffic where there is a wide enough cycle lane.

Simontheintrepid

@Initialised

I agree and usually try to pass on the right, sometimes it's just too crowded. My thinking was not to pass on the right this time because cars were likely to attempt to pull out to pass the bus. Also their positioning on the road because of this left a wide-ish space on the left. This happening has probably made me more careful of these sorts of scenarios from now on so may have saved me in the long run.

The Rookie

People quoting the HC have neglected the slow moving lanes caveat, clearly for most cyclists to be able to 'undertake' the lane the cars are in is slow moving, hence the caveat applies.

If the cycle lane is demarked by a solid white line then there is no issue anyway as they are then separate pieces of road as if separated by a solid divider.

markhewitt1978

The Rookie wrote:

People quoting the HC have neglected the slow moving lanes caveat, clearly for most cyclists to be able to 'undertake' the lane the cars are in is slow moving, hence the caveat applies.

If the cycle lane is demarked by a solid white line then there is no issue anyway as they are then separate pieces of road as if separated by a solid divider.

Most of the time; there are some places where the cars are limited to 20mph and I'm in a cycle lane slight downhill doing 25mph and overtaking them on the left.