Tubs for the lazy?

jonny_trousers

Does anyone here pay for a professional to sort their tubular needs? I ask because it occurs to me that most people opt for clincher race wheels due to the convenience factor only. I know some workshops offer a fitting/repair services at a not too outrageous price, so would it not make sense for the lazy amongst us to go tubular and pay for help when we need it. Just a thought, as I've not seen it addressed here.

JackPozzi

I'm not very organised so only ever buy a new tub to replace one that's worn out or punctured and normally need it fairly quickly so I'll go to the LBS rather than order online and have to wait for it to arrive by post.. As I'm there anyway I normally take the wheel and get it fitted...

jonny_trousers

JackPozzi wrote:

I'm not very organised so only ever buy a new tub to replace one that's worn out or punctured and normally need it fairly quickly so I'll go to the LBS rather than order online and have to wait for it to arrive by post.. As I'm there anyway I normally take the wheel and get it fitted...

Makes good sense to me.

Matthewfalle

I use tape as this way it takes 10 minutes to take off old tub, re tape rim, fit new tub, unpeeled backing, ensure central ness and pump up.

Further five minutes to set fire to old tub and open celebratory bottle of Barolo.

Job jobbed.

DavidJB

Professional or not I'd much prefer to glue my own tub to know it's been done correctly. Its my face which will plant the floor at the end of the day

jonny_trousers

DavidJB wrote:

Professional or not I'd much prefer to glue my own tub to know it's been done correctly. Its my face which will plant the floor at the end of the day

Wow! Are they really that treacherous?

DavidJB

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

Professional or not I'd much prefer to glue my own tub to know it's been done correctly. Its my face which will plant the floor at the end of the day

Wow! Are they really that treacherous?

No, you just need to make sure you put on plenty of glue, there's a good guide by park tools. I personally wouldn't use tape as it's been known to allow the tub to roll.

Once you try and get one off that's been glued well you'll see why you use glue and after a bit of practice it's not that much fuss.

StillGoing

Tubs aren't that difficult to manage. Sure, the initial gluing takes a while but it isn't rocket science. I have 3 spare tubs all the time; 1 always pre-glued and packed in the saddle bag and 2 at home ready to go. Unless it's a serious puncture, you can seal most of the small pin prick ones with sealant and a dab of superglue on the outer having got the offending article out. Swapping a tub at the side of the road, should you ever need to isn't that difficult once you break the glue seal. Having said that I've yet to experience a puncture since swapping to them late last year and have ridden along plenty of lanes with freshly mown Hawthorn hedges and loose chippings. My experience is your much more likely to suffer a puncture with clinchers than with tubs.

sungod

^^^ pretty much this

a properly glued tub is way better than a clincher, the difference in handling with a flatted tub vs. clincher is dramatic, tubs seem to fail much safer and remain rideable with a bit of care (though on uk's crappy roads it's probably best not to risk your rims doing it for too long)

jonny_trousers

Thanks chaps. I just read one of Ugo's articles on it too. I wonder why we're all so scared of them. I'm a way off buying new wheels, but I think I would certainly consider tubs.

ugo.santalucia

Not all shops will have the "expertise" to fit tubulars these days, but I expect the good ones will. They can charge quite a lot, up to or even more than 20 pounds, which in the end is fair, considering the amount of work involved to do the job properly.

Tubulars are good in the mountains and they are good for racing on the track and on the road, because they are safer... they also feel very good, so if you are after the ultimate riding experience, that's a good reason for tubs too.
The full RRP is very high, so you end up having to rely on offers and stock up when they are on sale.

bernithebiker

'm liking the Mavic Grip/Power link tubs at the moment. Nice and grippy and are wearing well, and you can get them quite cheap if you look around.

My best tip for mounting tubs; once you've got it fairly well seated, give it full beans on the pump, up to 160psi or so - this tends to straighten it out nicely!

earth

philthy3 wrote:

Having said that I've yet to experience a puncture since swapping to them late last year and have ridden along plenty of lanes with freshly mown Hawthorn hedges and loose chippings. My experience is your much more likely to suffer a puncture with clinchers than with tubs.

I've experienced two now. Both were slow punctures that remained inflated until I got home and only went flat hours after. Is it the case that tubs are less puncture prone that clinchers and why should that be?

StillGoing

Maybe because most flats with clinchers are pinch flats which you don't get with tubs?

drlodge

If anything, I would think tubs will puncture more easily than clinchers (pinch flats excluded) due to their generally more delicate construction. A slow puncture may be caused by a flint making a cut to the rubber but not going through, then over time the cut opens to expose the inner tube which then gets abrased and eventually forms a tiny hole. I had this happen on a clincher tyre (Vittoria Open Pave) which is essentially the same [delicate] tyre as the tubular version.

earth

philthy3 wrote:

Maybe because most flats with clinchers are pinch flats which you don't get with tubs?

I've never had a pinch flat with a clincher.

Matthewfalle

DavidJB wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

Professional or not I'd much prefer to glue my own tub to know it's been done correctly. Its my face which will plant the floor at the end of the day

Wow! Are they really that treacherous?

No, you just need to make sure you put on plenty of glue, there's a good guide by park tools. I personally wouldn't use tape as it's been known to allow the tub to roll.

Once you try and get one off that's been glued well you'll see why you use glue and after a bit of practice it's not that much fuss.

And in five years of only using tubs every day on three different bikes with three different wheel sets, I've never had one even think of rolling.

And come to think of it, never has anyone I know. And generally they are Euro/world class tri lads and elite roadies.

Never heard of it either.

Tape recommended 100% from here. But that's just me.

Matthewfalle

In addendum, Planet X also only recommended tape over glue for their 50mm carbons. So tape can't be that bad really.

earth

Matthewfalle wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

.
.
.

And in five years of only using tubs every day on three different bikes with three different wheel sets, I've never had one even think of rolling.

And come to think of it, never has anyone I know. And generally they are Euro/world class tri lads and elite roadies.

Never heard of it either.

Tape recommended 100% from here. But that's just me.

I haven't used them for that long but I have not had one roll off either. I'm no longer worried about it but to be pedantic, there is a uTube video of I think Chris Hoy racing another guy on the track when the other guy crashes and his tub rolls off.

I can't spend the work time looking for the clip.

ugo.santalucia

A few thoughts re. tape... there are two on the market: Jantex and Tufo. I did use Jantex for a while, until I found the front valve bent at 45 degrees at the bottom of a steep descent (5 Km at 9-10%) and moved to glue. I have never used the Tufo one, which seems a bit stronger adhesive (only installed it to a customer), but at 6-8 quid a pop it seems a rather expensive strip meant to go on a tyre that will not be taken off... essentially tape and sealant go together... Tufo phylosophy.

Re. the practicality of tape: while Tufo tape peels off easily and it is easy, quick and hassle free to install, Jantex has a paper strip that keeps breaking while you peel it off. The result is that it takes actually longer to tape a tyre with Jantex, than it does to glue it in place, hence the advantage is none.

Finally, in my experience every time I removed a taped tyre, the tape went with the tyre, which means you need a new strip... which again points in the direction of sealant as a way to fix a puncture, rather than a new tyre... it might be different with carbon rims, maybe the adhesion to tape is stronger than it is to aluminium, or maybe not...

bernithebiker

drlodge wrote:

If anything, I would think tubs will puncture more easily than clinchers (pinch flats excluded) due to their generally more delicate construction. A slow puncture may be caused by a flint making a cut to the rubber but not going through, then over time the cut opens to expose the inner tube which then gets abrased and eventually forms a tiny hole. I had this happen on a clincher tyre (Vittoria Open Pave) which is essentially the same [delicate] tyre as the tubular version.

My experience is quite the opposite; 15 000km per year and on average 1 puncture in that time if unlucky.

Tubs. (Vittoria and Mavic).

mm1

Tubs are very easy to fit and look after, you just need to well organised and methodical. Having not used them for 30 years it all came back very quickly when I got back on them. I have 2 pairs of sprints (one carbon) which are saved for special occasions (I.e. TTs when I'm fit enough to justify using them). Even the lightest tubs don't puncture if you look where you are going.

trooperk

earth wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Maybe because most flats with clinchers are pinch flats which you don't get with tubs?

I've never had a pinch flat with a clincher.

Me neither, all the years on mountain and road bike and I run quite low tyre pressure on the mountain bike, do people who say comments about pinch flats actually had a pinch flat them self or they just passing the gospel on.

jonny_trousers

trooperk wrote:

earth wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Maybe because most flats with clinchers are pinch flats which you don't get with tubs?

I've never had a pinch flat with a clincher.

Me neither, all the years on mountain and road bike and I run quite low tyre pressure on the mountain bike, do people who say comments about pinch flats actually had a pinch flat them self or they just passing the gospel on.

I've not commented on them, but I've certainly had them. Pretty rare occurrence, though, to be fair.

Matthewfalle

ugo.santalucia wrote:

A few thoughts re. tape... there are two on the market: Jantex and Tufo. I did use Jantex for a while, until I found the front valve bent at 45 degrees at the bottom of a steep descent (5 Km at 9-10%) and moved to glue. I have never used the Tufo one, which seems a bit stronger adhesive (only installed it to a customer), but at 6-8 quid a pop it seems a rather expensive strip meant to go on a tyre that will not be taken off... essentially tape and sealant go together... Tufo phylosophy.

Re. the practicality of tape: while Tufo tape peels off easily and it is easy, quick and hassle free to install, Jantex has a paper strip that keeps breaking while you peel it off. The result is that it takes actually longer to tape a tyre with Jantex, than it does to glue it in place, hence the advantage is none.

Finally, in my experience every time I removed a taped tyre, the tape went with the tyre, which means you need a new strip... which again points in the direction of sealant as a way to fix a puncture, rather than a new tyre... it might be different with carbon rims, maybe the adhesion to tape is stronger than it is to aluminium, or maybe not...

I use Jantex - the trick is to put tape on rim, fit tub, deflate tub completely and pick up the tyre as you unpeeled the tape then reseat tub - in ten or so I've done doing this takes 5 minutes and no backing tearing. Job jobbed.

Agree that tape stays on the tub but the flip side of this is that when you carry an old one as a spare it's pre taped for emergency use.

Jantex in my LBS is also £3.50 a reel (two tubs worth) so I have no problems with that.

ugo.santalucia

Matthewfalle wrote:

I use Jantex - the trick is to put tape on rim, fit tub, deflate tub completely and pick up the tyre as you unpeeled the tape then reseat tub - in ten or so I've done doing this takes 5 minutes and no backing tearing. Job jobbed.

I know the trick, but the trick never worked really well for me. I only taped a few, before giving up as I didn't think they were safe. They are probably OK round here, as there are no descents

herzog

Matthewfalle wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

A few thoughts re. tape... there are two on the market: Jantex and Tufo. I did use Jantex for a while, until I found the front valve bent at 45 degrees at the bottom of a steep descent (5 Km at 9-10%) and moved to glue. I have never used the Tufo one, which seems a bit stronger adhesive (only installed it to a customer), but at 6-8 quid a pop it seems a rather expensive strip meant to go on a tyre that will not be taken off... essentially tape and sealant go together... Tufo phylosophy.

Re. the practicality of tape: while Tufo tape peels off easily and it is easy, quick and hassle free to install, Jantex has a paper strip that keeps breaking while you peel it off. The result is that it takes actually longer to tape a tyre with Jantex, than it does to glue it in place, hence the advantage is none.

Finally, in my experience every time I removed a taped tyre, the tape went with the tyre, which means you need a new strip... which again points in the direction of sealant as a way to fix a puncture, rather than a new tyre... it might be different with carbon rims, maybe the adhesion to tape is stronger than it is to aluminium, or maybe not...

I use Jantex - the trick is to put tape on rim, fit tub, deflate tub completely and pick up the tyre as you unpeeled the tape then reseat tub - in ten or so I've done doing this takes 5 minutes and no backing tearing. Job jobbed.

Agree that tape stays on the tub but the flip side of this is that when you carry an old one as a spare it's pre taped for emergency use.

Jantex in my LBS is also £3.50 a reel (two tubs worth) so I have no problems with that.

Or the pencil trick - insert a pencil between the taped rim and the tyre, roll it around the rim as you're pulling the tape off (pulling a few cm behind the pencil). Works a treat with no more snapped tape.

StillGoing

trooperk wrote:

earth wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Maybe because most flats with clinchers are pinch flats which you don't get with tubs?

I've never had a pinch flat with a clincher.

Me neither, all the years on mountain and road bike and I run quite low tyre pressure on the mountain bike, do people who say comments about pinch flats actually had a pinch flat them self or they just passing the gospel on.

Strewth. :roll: The point was he was asking why you'd get more flats with clinchers than tubs. Tubs don't get pinch flats but clinchers can and do. Me, I've had pinch flats with clinchers which was reason why I moved to tubs.

ugo.santalucia

Herzog wrote:

Or the pencil trick - insert a pencil between the taped rim and the tyre, roll it around the rim as you're pulling the tape off (pulling a few cm behind the pencil). Works a treat with no more snapped tape.

That sounds like a better trick.

drlodge

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

I've not commented on them, but I've certainly had them. Pretty rare occurrence, though, to be fair.

I've had two pinch flats in 2 years - one caused by going over a small rock at high speed (front wheel), and the other from a pot hole that I simply didn't see (rear wheel). So yes its rare and I run my tyres at fairly high pressure too (25c at 100/110psi). Pinch flats are avoidable if you look where you're going :oops: