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Brake Caliper/Spokes Clashing

steelosteelo Posts: 542
edited July 2014 in MTB workshop & tech
I have a Specialized Rockhopper and riding it last night I noticed that the spokes of the front wheel (Bontrager rim and s/s spokes) was running so close to the inside edge of the caliper that you could hear some spokes striking the caliper. This hasn't happened before and I've never noticed the wheel running so close to the caliper. I checked the wheel and the spokes are all intact, all have a decently high pitch tune, the wheel isn't buckled either.

Has anyone else experienced this before? Are brake calipers designed to run almost against the spokes!?!?

The front brake works perfectly well with the 160mm rotor by the way.
Specialized Rockhopper '07
Trek Fuel EX8 '09

Posts

  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,811
    For it to go from not touching to touching, something has changed, only variables are calliper on mounting (adjustable) or axle within hub...if you have cup and cone bearings it's worth checking for play between the axle and hub.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    The wheel has sealed bearing, the caliper hasn't been adjusted for about 3 years as the bike hasn't really been used. I have swapped wheels over so I can only assume that the Bonty wheels have 'wider' spokes but this just seems a bit extreme.

    I was hoping someone would say "spokes are usually only 1-2mm away from the calipers".
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
    Trek Fuel EX8 '09
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,811
    Cup and cone can be sealed....do you mean Cartridge (which can be sealed or unsealed cartridges and have an extra seal or not anyway).

    Spokes are usually close, I'd try moving the calliper out on the mounting by a mm or so, assuming it's not a bearing issue.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    If I move the caliper out then the brake disc won't be aligned. The wheel hub uses sealed bearings, not cup and cone!
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
    Trek Fuel EX8 '09
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,811
    FFS Cup and cone can be sealed, as they are on Shimano hubs I presume your trying to say is that you have cartridge bearings (which are usually sealed in themselves but not always and may have an external seal).

    Saying the bearing is sealed tells you nothing about the bearing behind the seal!

    You can move the calliper out an mm or 2 usually without issue.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    When you say FFS I guess what you're trying to convey is that you are annoyed at my mistaken use of the term 'sealed', for that I apologise.

    Yes they are cartridge bearings.
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
    Trek Fuel EX8 '09
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,811
    Yes I was annoyed as I'd already clarified it once for you!

    I would see if you can move the calliper just enough to clear the spokes, as long as it's 'parallel' you can get away with it being 1mm off centre on the disc.

    Any play starting in the bearings can also cause this but cartridge usually fail quite quickly once play starts.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    How do you mean "cup and cone can be sealed, as they are on shimano hubs"? My shimano hubs are cup and cone and they're not sealed. Unless sealed doesn't imply that the grease is sealed in, the grease can easily be blasted away using a hose. Maybe the term sealed is used to describe a different part of the bearing construction. Can someone clarify for me what is meant by the term 'sealed' when it comes to wheel bearings? I'm obviously making a rookie mistake here somewhere!
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
    Trek Fuel EX8 '09
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,811
    You can blast the grease out of sealed cartridge bearings in the same way, sealed means has a seal rather than the most basic wheels that have no seal at all.
    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techd ... 651540.pdf
    Note the name of item No7.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Sounds like the problem has always been there but you have just noticed. I cannot move my caliper by a mm without causing rubbing so don't do that. Get your LBS to check the dish of the wheel it may have always been out a bit.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    I would say the wheel has lost tension causing the rim to move towards the caliper side.

    Get the wheel dished correctly.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    I'll put the wheel back on the original frame and check the clearance to that brake calliper, if the spokes then contact the calliper on that frame as well I'll know the wheel spokes have lost tension. I rode the bike again last night and it sounds like I've got spokey-dokeys!
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
    Trek Fuel EX8 '09
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,811
    It will be obvious, the rim won't be in the middle of the gap between the forks!
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    IIRC the wheel is running dead centre, but I'll double check that. It's really got me foxed. I used to ride the bike fairly regularly and never noticed any issues with the wheel, now all of a sudden the spokes are brushing past the calliper.
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
    Trek Fuel EX8 '09
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    As I expected, the wheel is running central on the fork. I took the wheel off and inspected the calliper closely to find the rotor has been running against the calliper body to the extent that there is bare metal showing from where the rotor has worn the painted surface away. It looks like the calliper has taken a knock and the pistons have centralised on the rotor, but way over on the extreme of the outer side. Hence the calliper being so close to the spokes. I've re-aligned the calliper and slotted the wheel back in and all is quiet again!
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
    Trek Fuel EX8 '09
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,811
    steelo wrote:
    the caliper hasn't been adjusted for about 3 years a
    There was your problem, it had and you didn't realise!
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • steelosteelo Posts: 542
    I think it must've been pushed when it was loaded into a car, under the weight of another bike (bad I know), or possibly having things leant against it for a prolonged period of time when in the shed. I definitely didn't knowingly or purposely adjust it to be in that position! No tools have been near the calliper for a good 3 years!
    Specialized Rockhopper '07
    Trek Fuel EX8 '09
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