Clincher Set for £1k

Dizeee

After a set of spangly wheels for my carbon bike. Budget is 1k, they will be replacing Fulcrum Quattro's which so far have been happy with but at 1780g for the pair could be lighter.

I am after something that is aero mainly, and will roll with noticeable ease over a ride of 30 - 40 miles at an average of 20 - 21mph compared to the quattro's.

Lightness is also important, but ultimately I am after a good all rounder that can save me a bit of weight and time on the climbs, yet will be able to offer great cruising ability on a well paced club run.

So far all I have been recommended are the Mavic R SYS wheels that apparently do everything. I have also considered Zipps but are they really worth it or is alot of the cost purely the name?

ugo.santalucia

If you want all that you want, are you prepared to ride tubulars? Carbon rims and tubulars, at least as an all rounder are an inseparable combo.

Carbon clinchers are an expensive compromise and not great as "do it all" as generally speaking they have issue on descents.

Otherwise, stick to alloy

PS: for a 30 miler at 20 mph your quattro are plenty... :roll:

lawrences

Swisside Hadrons look to be a decent carbon clincher. (alloy track with carbon section)

I don't own them so not first hand experience. They are new wheels to the market and the company is making big claims.

If I had the cash I'd probably get a pair.

Dizeee

Ill have a look at those cheers.

Arent tubs really hard / impossible to fix after a puncture, and what benefits do they really offer?

ugo.santalucia

lawrences wrote:

Swisside Hadrons look to be a decent carbon clincher. (alloy track with carbon section)

I don't own them so not first hand experience. They are new wheels to the market and the company is making big claims.

If I had the cash I'd probably get a pair.

Don't get fooled, any second year student of mechanical engineering can do those calculations and simulations (CFD ant the likes)... they don't mean anything.
They've even done a survey... WOW...!
Swiss side don't develop technology, they just buy components, assemble them and sticker them. They've probably given a few quid to an undergraduate Engineering student to do his final year project and put some colourful pictures on their site

milleman

Friend of mine has been very impressed with these;

http://www.cycledivision.co.uk/product- ... id133.html

ugo.santalucia

Dizeee wrote:

Arent tubs really hard / impossible to fix after a puncture, and what benefits do they really offer?

No, they're not, they're just more expensive to get fixed.

The benefits:

1) They won't explode and kill you if you overheat the rim on a long/steep descent

2) Rims are typically 100 grams lighter compared to a like for like clincher

However, if you like to hammer on the flat, none of the above matters

cycleclinic

alloy carbon rims have delimation issues even if its a big name brand. Most smaller brands will use rebranded chinese/taiwanese produced rims, there is nothing wrong with these rims - they are very good but you are paying extra for the rebrand. there is often no difference between a taiwanese or chinese rim as some taiwanese companies have the carbon products produced in China in a partner factory.

All carbon clinchers are for flat or rolling hill routes. Big decents should be avoided unless you are confident that you won't need to use your brakes much. tubular tyres are so little hassle it is untrue. Yes a puncture is a bit more expensive to sort (well alot) but the solution to that is to use a hard wearing tub like the vittoria Open Pave or conti competition so it does not happen so often. Also you carry a spare pre glued tub with you and some pitstop. That way when you puncture you put a fresh tyre on. Multiple punctures on a ride tend to happen if you ride on a worn tyre but with a fresh tyre on problem solved.

For factory wheel try looking at the Miche range if you are looking at carbon. Miche may actually make the rims in house they do that kind of thing with alot of there carbon products. Zipp maybe another option but I am not over familar with there range (the problem with Zipp is there hubs or at least it was a problem in the past that they have tried to address) or contact a wheelbuilder.

Your Quatro's are decent wheelset for what you are doing. I see deep carbon wheels for racing/TT/tri and not a whole lot else.

dilatory

What sort of descent qualifies as too big for carbon clinchers? I am no speeder descender but rather than dragging brakes all the way I run up to a speed then grab a load of brake and then run up to speed again, usually in correlation with corners but there's a few hills where I will do some hill repeats where the downhill sections are 25% and windy country roads and I drag them all the way down for like 350ft.

ugo.santalucia

dilatory wrote:

What sort of descent qualifies as too big for carbon clinchers? I am no speeder descender but rather than dragging brakes all the way I run up to a speed then grab a load of brake and then run up to speed again, usually in correlation with corners but there's a few hills where I will do some hill repeats where the downhill sections are 25% and windy country roads and I drag them all the way down for like 350ft.

I have never seen a road that averages more than 13% for over 1 mile. Even Hardknott just about exceeds that. If you have a steep descent of 350 feet, that's about half a mile, give or take... it is enough to build significant heat into your rims if you are forced to brake most of the time... then of course heat = friction , which depends how heavy you are among other things.
In the real world, most of these accidents happen in the mountains, rather than over here

dilatory

Sorry yeah, it bounces around 8-12% with 20% bits and a 25% kick. It's half a mile long. The surface isn't fantastic so building up any speed is foolhardy. I am 12st right now with about a stone to lose. It's really the only area where I brake most of the time. Living within reach of Snowdonia I ride there but brake more in fits and spurts.

I only want carbon clinchers for aesthetics really, are tubulars really usable year round on nice days. Shit wheels on the wet weather bike and carbon tubs on the nice bike whether training or club rides or solo romps?

Edit: http://www.strava.com/segments/1752745

ugo.santalucia

dilatory wrote:

I only want carbon clinchers for aesthetics really, are tubulars really usable year round on nice days. shoot wheels on the wet weather bike and carbon tubs on the nice bike whether training or club rides or solo romps?

I wouldn't mix aesthetic upgrades with riding in the mountains... there are a number of hazards involved in riding on a hilly terrain and there is no room for inadequate, "look-at-me" kind of equipment. Remember PROs have twice the road width you have at their disposal and they still go down with a bang very often.
Tubulars won't suffer when overheated (if you glue them, if you tape them they will roll off) but carbon is still an inferior braking surface and can still delaminate, regardless of whether it is clincher or tubular. A metal is more practical for demanding rides.

dilatory

Might just have to forgo my bike tart dreams. It'd be wrong to confuse wanting a nice looking bike with wanting people to look at it though. I like to look at it too. Ah well! Was just curious. Like that all black 30ish mm rim look.

ugo.santalucia

dilatory wrote:

Might just have to forgo my bike tart dreams. It'd be wrong to confuse wanting a nice looking bike with wanting people to look at it though. I like to look at it too. Ah well! Was just curious. Like that all black 30ish mm rim look.

Get a bike with disc brakes... this way you can have carbon rims or full black alloy rims that stay black...

robbo2011

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have never seen a road that averages more than 13% for over 1 mile

Here's one to add to your collection:

http://www.strava.com/segments/7090426

It's a complete nightmare to climb. I haven't tried to descend it - potential blowout territory braking for all those tight hairpins.

But your points are well made. Carbon clinchers are not for the mountains.

robbo2011

Another diversion, but here's another one where I was in fear of my life while descending.

http://www.strava.com/segments/1541672

Very steep and quite long. It's a narrow road with drops either side and you need to be on the brakes the whole way down, sometimes braking on 20% gradients into hairpins. My alumininum rims were burning hot at the bottom. Fortunately, everyone in the group got down without incident.

Widespread adoption of disc brakes can't come soon enough...

Secteur

Unless you're a pro, or doing serious races, just get some Fulcrum Racing 3's and pocket the rest. You wont notice the difference by spending any more.

Dizeee

Out of interest would something like these Cosmic Carbone SLS's make a noticeable difference as I have always loved the look of them and would happily spend the 750 price tag for a pair...

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... tAodb18ApQ

Dizeee

Plus in addition to my above post, looking at Zipp 30 / 60's none of them seem Campag compatible?

rc856

Wiggle says differently

Regarding tubs...you can have a read on a couple of massive threads on Weight Weenies about moving to tubs and glueing them. Puts your mind at ease.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... .php?f=113

nicklong

If it's just to look good on local club rides, it isn't worth spending £500 let alone £1000. As for averaging 20mph over 30-40 miles, that should be in reach on any set of road wheels.

For that money, your biggest performance boost would be a turbo trainer with some sort of digital power, and a decent training plan. That would get you easily up/past 20mph.

If you're racing, then that's different. It will still only buy you seconds over an hour's race but that could be enough to make the break / sprint and place (that is how I am justifying my C50s).

cycleclinic

I only use my carbon wheels for racing and TT's. That is what they are for. that Weight weenies thread is over a hundred pages long. get that popcorn ready if are going to read it!

dilatory

Not many wheelsets are lighter than Zondas for the same money so wonder why anyone spends any more. Specialized proved that a tighter fitting top gives more aero gains than a deep rim aero wheelset. Are you really competing at such a high level that Zipp's are giving you that split second advantage? If not then why do you do it?

Let's not beat around the bush, mostly everyone is doing it for aesthetics/tradition whether they admit it or not. There's this weird taboo around admitting you spent money on your bike because you liked the way it looks. Forgive me for asking the stupid questions!

sloppyschleckonds

Mavic SLR's have unbeatable braking performance. Recent tests show 20% better performance than anything else.

intheknowcycling.com

Dizeee wrote:

After a set of spangly wheels for my carbon bike. Budget is 1k, they will be replacing Fulcrum Quattro's which so far have been happy with but at 1780g for the pair could be lighter.

I am after something that is aero mainly, and will roll with noticeable ease over a ride of 30 - 40 miles at an average of 20 - 21mph compared to the quattro's.

Lightness is also important, but ultimately I am after a good all rounder that can save me a bit of weight and time on the climbs, yet will be able to offer great cruising ability on a well paced club run.

So far all I have been recommended are the Mavic R SYS wheels that apparently do everything. I have also considered Zipps but are they really worth it or is alot of the cost purely the name?

As you've concluded, a good all-arounder will suit what you describe you are trying to do. If you are doing a lot of descending, stay away from all-carbon clinchers and go with carbon-alloy wheels unless you can wait for a healthy range of competitively priced disc road frames and components to become available over the next couple of years. Challenge is that most carbon-alloy wheels aren't as aero due to their rim depth, width and profile as the all-carbon clinchers and the few that are become heavier to the point you'll feel the difference going uphill. But if you are in the 20-21mph range, you are just starting to get to the point where a more aerodynamic wheel will be noticeable so it's a decent alternative if you are rightly concerned about long descents. Tubular is an option too but that requires the attention/time I find most cycling enthusiasts who don't race regularly generally don't/can't commit to.

There's quite a bit of range between the wheels you mentioned in terms of material, design, performance and price. And I'm guessing you probably aren't up for maintaining tubulars. I've recently done a comparative review (http://intheknowcycling.com/2014/04/29/ ... ng-wheels/) of a dozen and a half all-round clinchers including current pricing that you might want to consider that also addresses some of the good points made by those earlier in this string including clincher vs. tubular, all-carbon vs carbon-alloy, disc-brakes and the like.

Remember that all-round wheels are best for all-round riding and your expectations should be just that. If you want something that's really aero or really light or really good in the climbs (and descents), you'll have to get different wheelsets. But from the nature of your initial question, I'm guessing that an all-round wheelset will do what you want as long as you don't expect it to do something that it isn't designed for.

Steve

sloppyschleckonds

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

I'm guessing that an all-round wheelset will do what you want as long as you don't expect it to do something that it isn't designed for.

Whut?

imposter2.0

News just in: all-round wheelset in 'good all-rounder' shocker....

sloppyschleckonds

Someone get Dave Brailsford on line 1

galatzo

Upgrades outlet website had some Reynolds Attack carbon clinchers (2013) for £750 !

ugo.santalucia

intheknowcycling.com wrote:

There's quite a bit of range between the wheels you mentioned in terms of material, design, performance and price. And I'm guessing you probably aren't up for maintaining tubulars. I've recently done a comparative review (http://intheknowcycling.com/2014/04/29/ ... ng-wheels/) of a dozen and a half all-round clinchers including current pricing that you might want to consider that also addresses some of the good points made by those earlier in this string including clincher vs. tubular, all-carbon vs carbon-alloy, disc-brakes and the like.


Steve

Steve, welcome to the forum.
I am unconvinced by your review. You set a number of criteria, but give no weighing on them and in the end the only criteria that matter to your "evaluation" are perofrmance and "looks". Being largely based on reviews, that's what people talk about: performance and look. Surely if price did matter as you state, Zipp and the likes would be nowhere near the top of an imaginary table, as you can go 95% as fast with something that costs 20% of the price. Clearly price doesn't matter to you.

This is a statement of yours "Tubular wheels are light and perform at the highest level but they are more costly and require more maintenance than clincher rims and tires".

If you have a close look, you will see that like for like a clincher set is always more expensive than the equivalent tubular version and while tubular tyres cost more than clinchers, like for like and overall tubulars will be a cheaper option. As for the alleged maintenance, both systems require the same maintenance, so I am not quite sure what you are talking about there.

I don't want to go into the merit of a ranking based on reviews you find online, after all analysis is your field and not mine and probably feedback from customers is what matters in the end, but it seems you lack the metrics to draw conclusions

foggymike

Galatzo wrote:

Upgrades outlet website had some Reynolds Attack carbon clinchers (2013) for £750 !

Old Assaults too at the same price. Forty Six's are £999 in store too. Good prices.