Stuck Seatpost on a brand new Shiv Expert

cannonball10

Hi

I have recently bought a brand new Specialized Shiv Expert TT bike, and discovered today (when I attempted to raise the seatpost height) that the seatpost is completely stuck. It is a carbon seatpost and carbon frame.

I've tried carefully maneuvering the post to free it up but this has not worked. I was able to push the seatpost further down but annoyingly could not pull it back up in the slightest (this now means I'm unable to ride it as the saddle is too low)

I'm not sure how this has happened on a brand new bike that was set up for me at a specialized store, and I'm thinking i'm going to have to take i back to the store where I bought it. But thought I would see if anyone here had some suggestions that I could try first.

Thanks in advance.

smoggysteve

Chances are if you did manage to get it out it would most likely be scratched which I am sure you dont want on a new bike. Take it back and get the shop to attempt it. If its scratched then they can replace it. Do not try and lube it yourself cos anything oil based can get into the fibres and delaminate

cannonball10

Thanks for the prompt reply Steve. That makes sense. I hadn't thought about what condition the post would be in if I did manage to get it out. Chances are it will be pretty battle scarred! This may be a daft question but when you say "lube" are you referring to sprays (like GT25) as well as grease?

smoggysteve

Yes, do not use oil or DW40 or the such on carbon. You can get special carbon lube for seatposts and bars etc

cannonball10

Thanks. *puts down the can of WD40 and backs away from the bike* :-P

Matthewfalle

Tosh. WD40 is a very light solvent. Spray away - it won't cause any harm at all - if anything it's more likely to dribble down the seat post and collect in a small puddle on the floor than do anything at all. If you are going this route then use GT85 as at least it smells nice. It'll still do bugger all of use though.

No delamination will occur.

Carbon paste is for holding things in place, not loosening.

Take to shop as it's a new bike and let them do it.

smoggysteve

Using any petroleum based lubricant can degrade the polymer resin the carbon fibre is set in so no you do not use oil.

Matthewfalle

It's a spray of a light solvent designed as a water displacement fluid that he is the going to wipe off.

It will not cause any problems at all.

I'll bet you a fiver on it.

Spray away my son - it'll dissolve in ten minutes doing no harm or good at all.

mr_evil

SmoggySteve wrote:

Using any petroleum based lubricant can degrade the polymer resin the carbon fibre is set in so no you do not use oil.

Where did you hear that? Carbon fibre has excellent chemical compatibility, and will not be damaged by ordinary lubricants.

smoggysteve

Mr Evil wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Using any petroleum based lubricant can degrade the polymer resin the carbon fibre is set in so no you do not use oil.

Where did you hear that? Carbon fibre has excellent chemical compatibility, and will not be damaged by ordinary lubricants.

Try looking on manufacturers websites. They make it so I'm sure they know better than anyone

Matthewfalle

Negative - WD etc are fine. Just don't go sploshing industrial solvents around.

So what you're saying is that in the history of carbon bikes anyone who has ever got WD or similar on their bike has suffered composite delamination and then their frame has died?

Utter tosh.

Warp and weft due to moisture absorption yes, but absolutely no problem ever, ever with WD.

sungod

yep, there's a lot of misunderstanding/misinformation out there about cf and grease etc., deep breath...

cf is bonded in epoxy resin, at room temperature you can dunk epoxy in all liquids a bike is likely to encounter, oil, grease, many solvents etc, without problems

for instance, over time, acetone can affect epoxy, but used on a wipe to degrease it flashes off far too fast to cause any problem, but to put things in perspective, according to http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/chemi ... d_786.html glucose, i.e. energy drink, has more effect on epoxy than oil, grease etc.

also... http://www.schunk-sik.com/sixcms/media. ... arbons.pdf

carbon assembly compound, is grease plus fillers to add friction, if cf was vulnerable to grease it'd hardly be used as the bulk component in assembly compound

if oil and grease were an issue for cf, then where are all the rotting chainstays, dropouts, bb shells, headset bearing seats, cranks etc.? all areas that get direct or indirect exposure to oil and grease

grease doesn't hurt cf bikes

clearcoat is another matter, that may well be more susceptible, it's nowhere near as tough as epoxy


anyway, if the shiv post is stuck, maybe it was tight and they still used cf assembly compound? then it could be really hard to shift, introducing some penetrating oil at the edges and gently wiggling the post to help seep down may be enough to ease it - fwiw on my steel bike the post is cf, and i use some assembly compound, when i remove it to pack for travel i have to straddle the top tube and slowly work it out using both hands

Matthewfalle

sungod wrote:

yep, there's a lot of misunderstanding/misinformation out there about cf and grease etc., deep breath...

cf is bonded in epoxy resin, at room temperature you can dunk epoxy in all liquids a bike is likely to encounter, oil, grease, many solvents etc, without problems

for instance, over time, acetone can affect epoxy, but used on a wipe to degrease it flashes off far too fast to cause any problem, but to put things in perspective, according to http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/chemi ... d_786.html glucose, i.e. energy drink, has more effect on epoxy than oil, grease etc.

also... http://www.schunk-sik.com/sixcms/media. ... arbons.pdf

carbon assembly compound, is grease plus fillers to add friction, if cf was vulnerable to grease it'd hardly be used as the bulk component in assembly compound

if oil and grease were an issue for cf, then where are all the rotting chainstays, dropouts, bb shells, headset bearing seats, cranks etc.? all areas that get direct or indirect exposure to oil and grease

grease doesn't hurt cf bikes

clearcoat is another matter, that may well be more susceptible, it's nowhere near as tough as epoxy


anyway, if the shiv post is stuck, maybe it was tight and they still used cf assembly compound? then it could be really hard to shift, introducing some penetrating oil at the edges and gently wiggling the post to help seep down may be enough to ease it - fwiw on my steel bike the post is cf, and i use some assembly compound, when i remove it to pack for travel i have to straddle the top tube and slowly work it out using both hands

What about the seat post?

sungod

Matthewfalle wrote:

What about the seat post?

cannonball10

Thanks for the replies and the entertaining debate :-) I've tried everything I came across but it's totally stuck. The mechanic at the store told me to bring it in and they'll sort it. I'll update how they actually do it.

Colinthecop

When it all goes wrong, make sure the Spesh dealer doesn't blame you…

cannonball10

Indeed! I made sure to clarify who would be responsible in the event of worst case scenarios. The shop stated they would sort anything as its so new.

g00se

I had something similar happen on a second hand bike, a local mechanic lent me a can of 'carbomove' and it worked a treat. Its like plusgas for carbon posts. Not cheap mind.

sungod

just looked up carbomove...

http://www.cantitoeroad.com/assets/imag ... BOMOVE.pdf

most is alcani c10, which, i guess, is alkane c10, plus heptane, and some more volatile ones

white gas (aka coleman fuel) might be a cheap alternative to try?

potentially explosive either way though!

Serious Cat

Never fails to amaze me how many threads ask a question and it turns into yes you can..no you can't...yes you can and all too often the OP is left without a clue :roll:

Matthewfalle

No they don't.

cannonball10

Cheers again for your replies. It looks like it's one of those things that just shouldn't happen, and I think I may have realised why (for those who are interested!)

When I had a closer look at the assembly manual (http://service.specialized.com/collater ... nstruction -Guide.pdf; page 20) it states that a "shim and top cap" should be installed at the front of the post, as well as the collar at the back (i've attached the pic).

On my Shiv there is no shim or topcap (only the collar at the back) and it looks like its the front of the post where the jam is occurring. Hopefully you can see from the pic that the symbol paint has been rubbed off where the post has met the frame where the shim should be.

Perhaps I've got this all wrong, but i'm thinking it has been set up properly at the store. I'm taking it in this weekend so will find out.

cannonball10

Ignore that theory - i've just realised that's for the time trial model and mine is the tri. Back to the drawing board!

shipley

What happened ? Did you get it removed ? If so, how did the shop do it ?

lpretro1

If the bike is brand new as op says it is then simply don't mess with it - straight back to supplier and it is their problem to sort it