Hi Fi

Peddle Up!

Despite my cynical musings elsewhere in this forum I've decided to get some new hi-fi clobber. What better place to start than on a cycling web site?

Starting with the amp and speakers I'd appreciate comments and recommendations on suitable parings. I'm drawn to the Cyrus amps from past experience, but open to suggestions. Budget for these components is up to three grand.

Thanks.

marcusjb

What do you want to do?

Vinyl? CD? Streaming? Etc. etc.

These days, most people are moving over to streaming solutions. Certainly I have done so for some years now (sonos first, now linn DS). All CDs are ripped onto a network drive and are now in storage not cluttering up the house. All controlled from ipad. Fantastic.

Deciding what you want to do first is the key really! There are some excellent all-in- one streaming integrated amplifiers from the likes of linn, naim and, I am sure, Cyrus.

Helping at all yet?

pblakeney

Try the What Hi-Fi Forums.

You will find that opinions are as polarised over there as they are over here.

Tip - Do not try alluding to cables not making a difference.

wishitwasallflat

Linn for pure musicality, tone and then detail, Naim for detail and then musicality - pick the feature that's most important to you (there really are no other choices).

CiB

Spent an enjoyable morning in a hi-fi shop recently listening to PMC speakers fed from a Naim amp & CD player. I already had the amp, bought the speakers so just need the player. They were and are superb.

You might want to look at streaming too. Cambridge do something called the Stream Magic 6 which opens up easy access to internet radio stations, podcasts, your NAS drive and the music on your iPad. It's very very good, and works through an optional iPad app.

VTech

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Linn for pure musicality, tone and then detail, Naim for detail and then musicality - pick the feature that's most important to you (there really are no other choices).

I know nothing about audio other than a friend of mine in scotland has Linn and although the speakers and setup are around £30,000 it is the best sound I've ever heard.
I asked him what version of a Bob Marley song he was playing and it was the same as I had only he played flak ? basically we hear only 1/10th of the sounds through mp3 ?

marcusjb

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Linn for pure musicality, tone and then detail, Naim for detail and then musicality - pick the feature that's most important to you (there really are no other choices).

Amen. I co-own a Linn/Naim dealership, and we feel that with the two companies, it really does offer everything you can ever need.

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

I asked him what version of a Bob Marley song he was playing and it was the same as I had only he played flak ? basically we hear only 1/10th of the sounds through mp3 ?

In pure numerical numbers a digital file can be over 200x a 320mbps mp3.
However, you will probably only notice a 10% improvement. You will notice a massive increase in quality over any mp3 at less than 193mbps though.
But then I would not scoff at a 10% improvement in my cycling speed.

After hearing my ripped music from a laptop connected to my Hi-Fi though a USB DAC I sold my CD player as the quality was identical. Note that I did not say better, or similar, but identical. The digital format is easier to access and store so if it sounds the same then it would be the logical route to follow.

Let your ears and tastes decide though.

nathancom

Anyone use SACD format at all?

Personally I can't tell the difference between flac and 320kps. I would much rather enjoy music than obsess over equipment too much though.

pblakeney

nathancom wrote:

Anyone use SACD format at all?

Personally I can't tell the difference between flac and 320kps. I would much rather enjoy music than obsess over equipment too much though.

I concur.
Obsess over equipment at the buying stage, then listen to the music.

Mikey23

Exactly... I now listen to music almost exclusively by streaming spotify and internet radio from my ipad mini to a bose soundlink mini... It aint hifi im sure but it gives me huge pleasure and the soind is awesome

RDW

PBlakeney wrote:

Tip - Do not try alluding to cables not making a difference.

There's a school of thought that goes beyond this, to say that any properly designed amplifier of sufficient power will be fine, as will any correctly implemented digital source (CD player or streamer), provided the DAC is good (which most of them are, even those built in to mid range receivers). Digital cables don't affect the sound unless they're faulty. Unbranded reasonably thick copper speaker cable will be absolutely fine. The bulk of your budget should therefore go into the speakers, which everyone agrees make a big difference. I like these:

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/showroom/fla ... /overview/

graham.

RDW wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Tip - Do not try alluding to cables not making a difference.

There's a school of thought that goes beyond this, to say that any properly designed amplifier of sufficient power will be fine, as will any correctly implemented digital source (CD player or streamer), provided the DAC is good (which most of them are, even those built in to mid range receivers). Digital cables don't affect the sound unless they're faulty. Unbranded reasonably thick copper speaker cable will be absolutely fine. The bulk of your budget should therefore go into the speakers, which everyone agrees make a big difference. I like these:

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/showroom/fla ... /overview/

Just going to say, I think the general consensus among Hi Fi retailers is that folks don't allocate anything like enough of their budget to the speakers.

napoleond

I had a £25k setup, it was WONDERFUL! I had to sell it when I broke my back/had 3rd child or we'dve had no house to put it in.
I now have a much more modest Cyrus / Ruark system thats about 3k worth. Hardly listen to it as it sounds crap in comparison, I tend to just use streaming from my iphone now!

marcusjb

RDW wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Tip - Do not try alluding to cables not making a difference.

There's a school of thought that goes beyond this, to say that any properly designed amplifier of sufficient power will be fine, as will any correctly implemented digital source (CD player or streamer), provided the DAC is good (which most of them are, even those built in to mid range receivers). Digital cables don't affect the sound unless they're faulty. Unbranded reasonably thick copper speaker cable will be absolutely fine. The bulk of your budget should therefore go into the speakers, which everyone agrees make a big difference. I like these:

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/showroom/fla ... /overview/

There is the alternative school of thought of 'source first', which Linn were key to the advocation of this approach (back 40 years ago when everyone believed the speaker was the most important component). To that end, my system uses fairly modest speakers (a pair of grand and a half floor standers) driven by electronics that cost many times more.

I know I would rather have £ speakers driven by £££ electronics than £££ speakers driven by £ electronics - garbage in, garbage out.

Works for me, but as with everything in audio, use your ears and listen before making your own mind up.

VTech

Are keff any good ?
I was given a pair of headphones and told they need 100 hours running in time. No idea if I'm being fed a line and if they are any good. They are sat in a draw right now.

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

Are keff any good ?
I was given a pair of headphones and told they need 100 hours running in time. No idea if I'm being fed a line and if they are any good. They are sat in a draw right now.

Hi-Fi kit quite often needs some running in, especially speakers and earphones to get the moving parts loosened up, so not a line.
Try plugging them in somewhere as sound proof as you can get while you are out for a day or two.
I have no experience of KEF equipment.

bernithebiker

To the hifi buffs;

We have a very big main room, and I think our current amp, a Copland CSA 28 (hybrid), struggles sometimes to fill the room.

The speakers are Monitor Audio floor standers, but not huge, the twin drivers on each are only 10 or 12cm I think. The lack of bass has already lead to me using a REL Q150E subwoofer as a supplement.

Would it be better to use bigger speakers or a bigger amp or both?

Peddle Up!

Thanks for the comments and advice folks. Sadly, I think Nap nailed it with his comments. I remember wandering around a "hi fi show" (do they still have these?) way back and noticing/kidding myself that I could detect the nuances of detail, musicality etc., from different setups - until I wandered into a demo of some exotic kit that must have cost tens of thousands of pounds....

Frankly, it was the only thing worth listening to and everything else was an "also ran". My pockets weren't deep enough then sadly. There's in better shape now, but I'm not going to spend the equivalent of a new car on kit. Even "wife pounds" wouldn't save me. I guess I'll take my ears along to Audio T or similar and see what's on offer.

drlodge

I had an interesting experience in a small hifi show put in by a single dealer - 4 rooms with different but high end setups. My hifi is pretty good (Wadia 861 CD player, Muse 300W mono blocks, ATC SCM40 speakers) but was expecting to get blown away by all this exotic stuff.

Well 3 of the setups sounded pretty pi$$ poor, one especially sounded abolsutely horrid. The 4th setup on the other hand I was blown away by - The newest 4 box Wadia player, some £30k monoblocks and Wilson Audio Duette speakers (£12k). It did show what was possible at the high end, but also you can pay a lot of money for a really cr@p sound.

Cables and all the other stuff that gets debated endlessly do make a difference but as long as they are half decent, they won't make a big difference and you're into the laws of dimishing returns too. [Digital cables can make a difference to sound quality as they introduce jitter to the digital signal].

sungod

i used to have a tri-amped system, i designed the crossovers and (huge) speakers, the rest was crimson elektrik modules (1980s crimson), mostly played vinyl, it sounded great though it was never pretty, the speakers were like coffins, under female pressure one day i switched to off the shelf (mostly musical fidelity), but, well, meh

for music that's undergone lossy compression, hi fi system it doesn't make a difference, deep down it's always mush, hard to describe but there's no 'silence' underneath the music

these days i sometimes whip out vinyl to impress (or more likely bore) people who only heard the same track as mp3, it might be a big crackly but i prefer the sound

for music that's not gone through the mill, imho active crossovers and multiple amps make the biggest difference, passive crossovers can't achieve anything close to the same performance

i'd mulled over applying my dsp-fu to create a new system with fir crossovers, got other things to occupy my time though, maybe one day i'll do it but i'm thinking more likely i'd stick with analogue

Dog Breath

Just gone down the 'streaming' route myself. Not broken the bank to do it though.

I already had some Mission M74 floor standing speakers. They are now linked up to a Cambridge Audio Sonata NP30 player, with a CA Topaz amp, and streaming from a Synology DS14se NAS

Very happy with it, but it's early days and have only put a bout a dozen albums on it.

Internet radio is good and Planet Rock is usually blaring out nicely

pblakeney

Dog Breath wrote:

Just gone down the 'streaming' route myself. Not broken the bank to do it though.

Yes, it can be done quite simply.
I already had the laptop, amp, speakers and cables.
I simply had to add a new DAC to the setup, hook up the laptop and everything was done.
A video connection to the TV and a phone remote app to control the laptop and I can watch or listen to anything in my collection, or online without even opening the laptop lid.

supersonic

Your room can affect the sound massively. The speakers need to integrate well into your room.

I like a powerful amp with large current reserve so big transients are handled well.

I find cables do not make any difference, beyond a point. If they are terminated well (and interconnects properly shielded), it is not an area to spend money.

Source is more about preference really, I'm still on CD. Worth mentioning that many CDs do not make use of their full capabilities.

Currently running a Marantz CD player with Philips DAC, Misson Cyrus 2 with PSX outboard power supply, AS105 speakers, and a Yamaha DSP for cinema duties (using the Cyrus to power the front stereo pair).

napoleond

Edited for stupidity

pblakeney

NapoleonD wrote:

I had a wonderful system (about 25k worth) that I had to sell when I broke my back/lost promotion/had 3rd child in order to keep the house.
I have a more modest Cyrus/Ruark system now and it's just meh. Only use it for background music now as it is completely soulless. I tend to listen to streaming music from my iphone nowadays instead!

Does it echo as much as your posts?

napoleond

PBlakeney wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

Some bullsh!t or other!

Does it echo as much as your posts?

Hah! WTF?!? I didn't realise that post got sent the other day

Peddle Up!

NapoleonD wrote:

I had a wonderful system (about 25k worth) that I had to sell when I broke my back/lost promotion/had 3rd child in order to keep the house.
I have a more modest Cyrus/Ruark system now and it's just meh. Only use it for background music now as it is completely soulless. I tend to listen to streaming music from my iphone nowadays instead!

You haven't got the Ruark radiogram, have you Nap?

napoleond

Coooool!

pblakeney

NapoleonD wrote:

Hah! WTF?!? I didn't realise that post got sent the other day

8)

trooperk

Some good advise here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXDK3x5lAYI