Homeless spikes

pesky_jones

If you havn't seen it already, little spikes are being installed in some popular homeless spots. On Facebook there's loads of people complaining, there's activists pouring concrete over the spikes etc.

Is this treating humans like vermin?

I guess the alternatives would be to restrict access to the spots (fence/caging) or having the homeless removed by police.

welshkev

I'm sorry, you seem to have posted a serious topic in the crudcatcher :?

Chunkers1980

That's a good thing.

veronese68

welshkev wrote:

I'm sorry, you seem to have posted a serious topic in the crudcatcher :?

He's worried that homeless types hang around in here.

arran77

Well according to the local radio here all the 'homeless' have homes and just beg for a living so f*ck em

pesky_jones

Arrans only here because he thought the thread was about new ways to get a tramp back to his

Andy

I think they are a good idea.

Long_Time_Lurker

Pesky Jones wrote:

I guess the alternatives would be to restrict access to the spots (fence/caging) or having the homeless removed by police.

Or perhaps coming up with better ways of tackling poverty and providing support for vunerable members of the community...

I have a friend who lives in the flats where this was done. Came as a direct result of complaints from residents who were being intimidated.
It was done in the alcove where the bell system is. Done because the residents didn't want to lean over a homeless person to ring the door and get access. It's near-on impossible to lean over a drunk to get to the two-way radio.
What all of the articles have failed to mention, that it is only in one alcove. The one on the other side is still free for a tramp to kip down for the night.
It's been blown up via social media to sound as if every bit of public land has a set of deadly spikes now - in reality it is one or two places.
It's not like it is new phenomenon. Swing-flat seats in bus stations were created to stop the homeless from sleeping on them.

drlodge

If the alcove is on private property, I don't see the issue, its up to the land owner/freeholder to do as they please. The tramps have no right to use that place.

Whoever designed the building chose to put an alcove there, they could have decided not to have an alcove and the issue wouldn't even exist.

I think the real and bigger question is - as a society, how do we want to deal with tramps/the homeless? e.g. let them be homeless/beg for the rest of their short and miserable lives, have the state support them which costs £££, or have them put down etc (OK that's a bit OTT but just putting it as an option so it can be excluded...)

I really don't think having a go at homeowners for not wanting these people on their private property is going to achieve anything constructive. The problem isn't theirs to resolve.

njee20

Electrify the spikes. A bit of a cull wouldn't hurt. Well, not those of us with houses anyway.

herb71

I would gather all the homeless up and use them to make Soylent Green!

arran77

Herb71 wrote:

I would gather all the homeless up and use them to make Soylent Green!

Now this threads getting back on track

IhateDNS

Good thing. The complainers would sing a different tune if they had someone shitting & pissing out side there place.
When I did a bit time with shelter were always a number of empty beds most nights, some choose to sleep rough!

Winter gets rid of some one them.

coulddobetter

I have been a homeowner and homeless for a time. No spaces at all in Hampshire. Thankfully back on track .

poah

IhateDNS wrote:

Good thing. The complainers would sing a different tune if they had someone ******** & pissing out side there place.

look, sometimes I forget my key :oops:

welshkev

POAH wrote:

IhateDNS wrote:

Good thing. The complainers would sing a different tune if they had someone ******** & pissing out side there place.

look, sometimes I forget my key :oops:

I got locked out of my brothers apartment once cos he was too pissed to answer the intercom. I was found asleep on the communal doorstep clutching a pizza by one of his well to do neighbours at about 7am

arran77

welshkev wrote:

POAH wrote:

IhateDNS wrote:

Good thing. The complainers would sing a different tune if they had someone ******** & pissing out side there place.

look, sometimes I forget my key :oops:

I got locked out of my brothers apartment once cos he was too pissed to answer the intercom. I was found asleep on the communal doorstep clutching a pizza by one of his well to do neighbours at about 7am

They should of had some of those spikes, that would've learnt ya :P

The Northern Monkey

Should install the anti graffiti device from the Demolition Man, just out of the floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDrYkwG6Tuo&feature=kp

IhateDNS

Above could be rolled out lots places like paying for rails ticket and not have money or card ready in hand. :roll:
Shopping queue so on.

spikes from wall
http://youtu.be/9bOQitInC84?t=1m6s

projectsome

Just teach them how to build tree houses and hammocks and how to fish.

They all seem to have blankets with them and I'm sure they can fashion some sort of spear with a dog stick

The Rookie

IhateDNS wrote:

When I did a bit time with shelter were always a number of empty beds most nights, some choose to sleep rough!

The Samaritans shelter is also 'unpopular' as it has a very strict no alcohol rule, nearly always has empty beds and people being sought 'emergency' shelter by local authorities have been known to turn it down for that very reason.

You can only help those who want to be helped!

As a general principle as long as the spikes are only on either private property or public property where someone sleeping there causes an exceptional issue, then I have no problem.

welshkev

when I owned my business we had 2 homeless crack heads that would sleep in the bushes at the top of the garden - when that business is a kids nursery you need to do something about it.

they were shooting up in view of the kids and shit. they were a right PITA.

I understand that some people are homeless through no fault of their own and I genuinely feel for those people, but as the rookie said, you can only help those that want to help themselves

BillyMansell

welshkev wrote:

I understand that some people are homeless through no fault of their own and I genuinely feel for those people, but as the rookie said, you can only help those that want to help themselves

The sentiment of "you can only help those that want to help themselves" is well past its sell by date. It was a rationale created by those sitting in an elevated position who were not wholly committed to or were simply unwilling to help those less fortunate.

These days the emphasis is on helping people to explore what potential they do have despite their vulnerabilities rather than wholly dismissing them at a time when they may lack the capacity to make appropriate decisions for themselves.

welshkev

Woah!!! That's deep man!!!

I can see where you're coming from, but how much assistance do you offer? How deep into the rabbit hole do you go?

The Rookie

You offer someone a bed and they say no as they want to get pissed, you offer them help to get off the booze (and other substances) but they say no as they enjoy it.....then what do you suggest we do to help them 'explore their potential', as a society it is only worth investing what we as a society expect to get back (holisticaly)......if someone isn't willing to be helped, there is nothing realistically you can do until they decide they want to be.

Doesn't matter how much performance coaching you give a dead horse, it still ain't going to win a race!

junglist_matty

The Rookie wrote:

You offer someone a bed and they say no as they want to get pissed, you offer them help to get off the booze (and other substances) but they say no as they enjoy it.....then what do you suggest we do to help them 'explore their potential', as a society it is only worth investing what we as a society expect to get back (holisticaly)......if someone isn't willing to be helped, there is nothing realistically you can do until they decide they want to be.

A large majority of homeless people are not homeless through choice, they are homeless because they've tried to escape a sorry situation but had nowhere to turn for help. Domestic violence is the biggest single reason people escape to the streets then turn to drugs and alcohol to escape their issues. I'm sure that most people put into the same situations as these "homeless addicts" would have taken a very similar path in life. I think the majority of these issues can be prevented through an improved social system stopping this sort of abuse at an early stage. Domestic abuse, especially the neglect of young children by their own family is far too high in this country, unfortunatley, in many cases that is what causes these issues in later life.

The Rookie

Not disputing that, but that's before/as they become homeless, not once they are 'settled' into a homeless routine...I dont like the fact we have people living rough, I'd rather they were sleeping in a clean bed, but when beds are available and they turn them down, then unless we think forcebly incarcerating them is acceptable there is not much that can be done until they decide they want help.

BillyMansell

So Rookie, you believe people indulging in destructive and self-harming behaviour are doing so because they enjoy it and you want to delineate between long term homelessness and the causes of long-term homelessness. You don't see the problem of empty beds being that they're unsafe as a result of them being provided through output focused block contracts and you think people should be detained under the Mental Health Act and treated at 10-20 times the cost of supporting them in the community, all this at a time when health and social care are having to provide more with less.

As a matter of interest, what is the view of your local Health and Wellbeing Board, your county council and CCG(s) on homelessness? How are they working collaboratively with the probationary service, police force, hospitals, voluntary and community sector and the homeless themselves to address the issue?

Thewaylander

I say take all the chavs on benefits, put them in gladiatorial combat for public viewing. People who want help are helped those who don't arena! problem solved. worked for the Romans...

peat

No point treating the symptoms if you don't address the cause.

In the 'developed world' *snigger* we should be able to offer people a basic option that if they contribute to society by working, they get remunerated enough that they can afford basics quality of life. We've gone wrong somewhere and i don't pretend to have the answers.

Helping people off the bottom rung can't be give and no take. That's how we have got into the welfare mess we're in, 2nd & 3rd generations of people who just expect to be owed a roof and food.

I'm going to stop before i start going all right-wing. But i'm aware my first para sounds like very wishy washy lefty ideology. I'M CONFLICTED GOD DAMMIT!

pesky_jones

A lot of peoples situation doesn't warrant drugs, but they still do them. By warrants I mean taking a drug to escape the world you're in, because it is literally unbearable a.k.a not because you can't pay your bills this week and might get your house repossessed.

It's not always a case of the poorest of the poor, or the weakest of the weak turning to heroin etc, I've seen someone with a home and family turn to smack and ended up stealing at knife point, loosing their kids and homeless. No sympathy whatsoever. Then someone will see him on the street begging, cold at night, and think "our fucked up system allowed this to happen, what can we do about it"....no it didn't, spike the bastard