I can't stay out the saddle for long

sigorman85

I spend nearly all my time in the saddle even on the big hills. when I get out and try to ride out the saddle my legs will burn out within 30 seconds to a min I'm not going for a quick outblast of power just same pace as sat down.... Anyone got and ideas and techniques that will help or is it down to just practice and fitness?

My commute is 16 miles to work and back with the return journey home quite hilly I live in Dorset and on Portland if anyone knows Portland it's quite a steep ride to get to the top just over a mile at 8%to 15% at some parts .....so on the way to work I try and get out the saddle but just feel done in after a min but then I'm ok in the saddle

Many thanks

Si

imposter2.0

sigorman85 wrote:

down.... Anyone got and ideas and techniques that will help or is it down to just practice and fitness?

In a word - yes.

gubber12345

Imposter wrote:

sigorman85 wrote:

down.... Anyone got and ideas and techniques that will help or is it down to just practice and fitness?

In a word - yes.

imposter is right this time,used to be the same but with plenty of riding and climbing i'm not so bad now can go a fair bit if i'm not blasting it.stick with it mate.

Baby Trek

I used to be the same...always rode in the saddle, even up climbs in the Peak District and French mountain climbs...I could not manage to get out of the saddle for long. It really is down to practice and doing it more often.
I cannot sustain it for long periods but I am a whole lot better than I was for making myself do it regularly.

sigorman85

I like to think that I'm a fairly fit person as always been in to sports but I guess just standing up uses different muscles to siting down ..... I have quite big quads and hams from my rugby days and I'm no racing snake so I thought my size might not help I'm not fat just have a big build

vs

After a 8 months of following the core exercises from the Danielson/Westfahl book I've noticed huge improvements in out of the saddle climbing.

imposter2.0

vs wrote:

After a 8 months of following the core exercises from the Danielson/Westfahl book I've noticed huge improvements in out of the saddle climbing.

I suspect that simply climbing out of the saddle more often over the last 8 months would have had the same effect..

vs

Imposter wrote:

vs wrote:

After a 8 months of following the core exercises from the Danielson/Westfahl book I've noticed huge improvements in out of the saddle climbing.

I suspect that simply climbing out of the saddle more often over the last 8 months would have had the same effect..

You reckon?

I live within the Exmoor National Park. I have cycled most days for the past 30 odd years, so I've done plenty of climbing out of the saddle. I think I know how improvement due to stronger, more stable, core muscles feels.

imposter2.0

vs wrote:

Imposter wrote:

vs wrote:

After a 8 months of following the core exercises from the Danielson/Westfahl book I've noticed huge improvements in out of the saddle climbing.

I suspect that simply climbing out of the saddle more often over the last 8 months would have had the same effect..

You reckon?

I live within the Exmoor National Park. I have cycled most days for the past 30 odd years, so I've done plenty of climbing out of the saddle. I think I know how improvement due to stronger, more stable, core muscles feels.

Yes, I do reckon

I too live in a very hilly area - have never done a second's worth of specific core exercise in my entire life, and yet can ride uphill out of the saddle for a relatively open-ended amount of time. What we have here is one anecdote, versus another..

drlodge

Its just a matter of practice, also not pushing too hard which will quickly exhaust your legs.

My legs used to tire immediately when out of the saddle, now I can go for long periods standing up steep hills but its more a question of pacing to climb at a sustainable rate.

apreading

I did a bunch of spin classes over the winter before last - made a HUGE improvement to my climbing out of the saddle - before that I always sat down as I could only manage a few seconds out of the saddle.

Time doing it in the spin sessions, strengthening those muscles was a part of the reason why but also changes in technique and trying out different positions in the artificial environment was easier and this was also a big part. Improving the core as a result was also a benefit, I am sure.

On the spin bike, the ability to fine tune the resistance allowed me to effectively set the gradient I was simulating maually and as a result I could spend long time out of the saddle and make sure I was pushing myself just hard enough to still be able to keep going. On real hills, without this control, I found the gradients too steep to be out of the saddle long enough to train more at it.

vs

Imposter wrote:

vs wrote:

Imposter wrote:

vs wrote:

After a 8 months of following the core exercises from the Danielson/Westfahl book I've noticed huge improvements in out of the saddle climbing.

I suspect that simply climbing out of the saddle more often over the last 8 months would have had the same effect..

You reckon?

I live within the Exmoor National Park. I have cycled most days for the past 30 odd years, so I've done plenty of climbing out of the saddle. I think I know how improvement due to stronger, more stable, core muscles feels.

Yes, I do reckon

I too live in a very hilly area - have never done a second's worth of specific core exercise in my entire life, and yet can ride uphill out of the saddle for a relatively open-ended amount of time. What we have here is one anecdote, versus another..

Just saying that's all, trying to be a little help with my 'anecdote'. Perhaps you should try it.

Tjgoodhew

When out the saddle I alwasy found it more energy sapping than sitting down.

But as my fitness has improved so has my ability to climb out of the saddle. When im climbing i tend to alternate sitting and out of the saddle and by doing this could potentially climb for long periods of time. Living in Essex I tend to run out of hill before i run out of legs !!!

Devastazione

Factors limiting my "quality time" out of the saddle :

183 cm x 86 kg,I'm heavy,muscular legs but still heavy. I don't like those greyhound lookalike climbers but damn they do pedal out of the saddle no issue... :?
compact crank : compact crank want's you to sit and spin like an hamster,I really need to get rid of it.

I've been trying to improve my out of the saddles and loved it so far,learned to use some muscular groups I've was not aware of. Still don't knwo if I have to have the bike swinging like there is no tomorrow or if I should balance it nicely... :roll:

imposter2.0

vs wrote:

Just saying that's all, trying to be a little help with my 'anecdote'. Perhaps you should try it.

Both our anecdotes are equally meaningless, unfortunately.

Old_Timer

As you are supporting more weight when you stand you are using more energy. As said above, practice and improved fitness will help you out so you can stand longer, when it is necessary. Seated pedaling is more efficient, but some of us want to stand, usually when climbing or in a sprint effort. Personally I stay seated to keep my cadence constant and conserve my strength.

Maybe some weight training specific to your legs would help you out in building up the leg and lower back strength, as well as you upper body so you arms and chest are aiding you in the effort while standing up.

Just my take and what has helped me out.

t4tomo

Imposter wrote:

vs wrote:

Just saying that's all, trying to be a little help with my 'anecdote'. Perhaps you should try it.

Both our anecdotes are equally meaningless, unfortunately.

Vs - Dont come on an internet forum expecting your opinion to be respected, that not how it works, its a dog eat dog world of keyboard warriors

Out of interest does doing lots of climbing in and out of the sadddle improve your core muscles too? I reckon probbaly but the specific core muscle exercises in Dr Rakingitin's book will also help, so I reckon you're both right.

and now relax......

chris_bass

is climbing when out of the saddle a good thing? I always thought it wasn't that great and I spend far too much time out of the saddle, I struggle to remain in the saddle if its a hill of any magnitude. But on the flip side i think i could probably do a sizable ride with no saddle at all!!

TakeTurns

You shouldn't really be out the saddle as long as 30seconds anyway. Going out the saddle is supposed to help rest other muscles for a brief moment. So unless you're trying to power over something, stay seated - unless you're Pantani.

Being a rugby player build won't help you either, you're putting your entire body weight onto your legs whilst trying to turn the pedals. It's just not efficient. So unless you're like Contador (who does it well) you can't exactly dance on the pedals.

Stay seated, like Bradley.

drlodge

+1 on stay seated, for efficiency...except when the incline gets steep and the front wheel starts lifting, then its stand up time.

For me , the ability to stand for prolonged periods is the key to getting up long steep hills. By steep, I mean about 15% which is the point when my front wheel starts hopping around.

slowbike

As with all techniques, the more you practice the better you'll become.

out of the saddle for climbs a good thing? only if you practice it and can do it as well as someone sat down.

Not sure about the "it's harder work than sat down" argument - perhaps that only applies if you're not used to standing up and haven't trained the appropriate muscles - you could argue that using gravity against your body weight is more efficient ... it's probably more efficient than my grind anyway!

itsnotarace

Sit ups, push ups and building general core fitness will help

imposter2.0

itsnotarace wrote:

Sit ups, push ups and building general core fitness will help

Will they? Can you explain why it might be that simply riding out of the saddle is not sufficient to train the muscles you use when riding out of the saddle?

My suggestion would be to forget the situps, etc and instead use that time to ride your bike - ideally out of the saddle...

apreading

I think the problem is that if you cant sustain riding out of the saddle for long at all then you cant adequately use that as a technique to train for riding out of the saddle. So finding other methods to train those areas that will allow you to sustain it a bit longer will then unlock the whole activity and you can then use 'just ride more' as a training method to go further.

drlodge

I started by getting out of the saddle for short hills, or for a short while before sitting back down again. So its practice and training...starting small and extending the time as you develop the muscles and stamina.

ai_1

Chris Bass wrote:

is climbing when out of the saddle a good thing? I always thought it wasn't that great and I spend far too much time out of the saddle, I struggle to remain in the saddle if its a hill of any magnitude. But on the flip side i think i could probably do a sizable ride with no saddle at all!!

I recently did about 15km with essentially no saddle at all. The seatpost on my new bike slipped mid-ride despite being at max torque and slipped again after I re-clamped it conservatively without a torque wrench. So I resorted to riding out of the saddle all the way home. I occasionally ride out of the saddle on some climbs and can last a few minutes if I take it easy but usually I stay seated on climbs.
Anyway a lot of this ride was on hills and some on the flat. It was pretty damn tiring but you could do it if you had to.

il sole

I have only recently started to get out of the saddle on climbs, believing it was better to sit and spin. However, I find that breaking a long climb up into segments helps, so the steeper bits, I'll stick it in a bigger gear and get out of the saddle, then when it gets easier, i'll sit back down and change to a smaller gear. I have found that to successfully prolong a period of out of saddle exertion, it helps to grind a bigger gear. Thing is, as I have noticed, that as a novice, there is so much information and advice out there, so the OP is better off just doing what feels right to him. If he's successfully climbing then there probably isn't any need to change...

...saying that though, during the tour of california, I noticed wiggo out of the saddle for much longer periods than I'd noticed before...

drlodge

Yes, swapping between seated and standing is helpful on hard climbs since it puts different muscles into action and rests those you just used.

imposter2.0

apreading wrote:

I think the problem is that if you cant sustain riding out of the saddle for long at all then you cant adequately use that as a technique to train for riding out of the saddle. So finding other methods to train those areas that will allow you to sustain it a bit longer will then unlock the whole activity and you can then use 'just ride more' as a training method to go further.

Not sure you've thought that through. It's a bit like saying if you are new to cycling and can't ride very far, then you can't use your bike to train to ride further. The more you cycle, the more you adapt. If the only alternative was to do something else before becoming fit enough to ride, then nobody would ever ride their bikes. Logic will always win over conjecture.

apreading

I have thought it through and it is logical.

If you could only ride your bike for less than 30 seconds at a time without your heart and lungs stopping you going any further then you would struggle to use your bike to train to ride further. Walking or some other lower stress activity to improve general fitness would allow you to ride your bike more than 30 seconds and use it for training.

I think that I would have struggled to do even 30 seconds out of the saddle a couple of years ago, so was unable to use practice as a way of improving. Spinning sorted me out and now with further training I can go 30 minutes (or more) up the steepest inclines that I was able to find in Tuscany recently...

imposter2.0

apreading wrote:

I have thought it through and it is logical.

If you could only ride your bike for less than 30 seconds at a time without your heart and lungs stopping you going any further then you would struggle to use your bike to train to ride further. Walking or some other lower stress activity to improve general fitness would allow you to ride your bike more than 30 seconds and use it for training.

I think that I would have struggled to do even 30 seconds out of the saddle a couple of years ago, so was unable to use practice as a way of improving. Spinning sorted me out and now with further training I can go 30 minutes (or more) up the steepest inclines that I was able to find in Tuscany recently...

Well, like I said - I don't actually remember how I trained to ride for long periods out of the saddle. I guess I must have just rode for varying amounts of time, out of the saddle. I certainly didn't dive into the gym or start doing sit-ups, that much I do remember.

It's a skill/facet that you just acquire through riding a bike - let's not over-think it.