Royce hub Ti/carbon they are finally here

cycleclinic

Well I have had to wait 9 months for these that 5 more than normal but it is worth it. I did start a thread last year but the search function does not work again loging in is a hassle too.

I am treating my self. I have always wanted to try a proper 2:1 laced wheelset but with a hubset made for it not a standard hub but the BHS hub is just a standard hub with a different drilling pattern so that's out. The whole point of 2:1 lacing is that the NDS flange can be moved a long way out and still good NDS tension is achieved.
If you 2:1 lace with a standard hub with heads out lacing NDS you are actually reduce the flange to centre of hub distance a bit thus reducing the NDS bracing angle and given there are only half the number of spokes on that side now the wheel stiffness drop compared to a convential lacing pattern. Hardly optimal which is why I don't like 2:1 laced wheels when I see them on here much.

There is no hub on the market which does what I want it to do so I had one made. This is a special they normally do not make hubs this way or to the dimesnion below.

Royce Ti/carbon hubs. They are not light with the lockring they are 437g but I think that O.K. Thay have Ti flanges, Ti hub Ti everything, carbon shell and NTN 6001 bearings.

the PCD is 45mm for the rear and the centre flange to centre hub is 17mm/46.45mm. Given the NDS will be laced radial heads out the tension balance will be 80% not huge for this lacing pattern but high enough. The NDS bracing angle will be just over 9 degrees which means a very stiff wheel indeed.

The rims I will use a Pacenti SL23 with the rear being the centre drilled version curtosy of BHS- I am glad they have them.
All in all I am looking forward to doing these. These are hubs for life quite literally. I wish there was a alloy tubular rim in 20H/24H drilling I could use but HED do not do they C2 in 20H and the Major Tom is best used with really wide tubs. I already have a set of carbon clinchers so another set of carbon wheels even if they were tubulars makes little sense to me.



Final wheelset weight with CX-rays will be 1540g ish which is light enough for me.

mr_evil

It's worth paying a weight penalty to have works of art like that. A shame no one makes Ti rims to match.

marcusjb

Now those do look a work of art - Cliff's finest work!

imposter2.0

Can't see the bike pics...

Velonutter

Moved to the workshop as not a bike

brettjmcc

Looking forward to seeing them built up

andrewc3142

Lovely.

I had some wheels built for me last year by Harry Rowland on the standard Royce hubs for my Acciaio (32 spoke, Ambrosio Excellight rims in silver, Sapim spokes).

Based on my experience, I think you'll be very pleased indeed.

cycleclinic

Royce hubs are probably the best hubs there are and the standard ones are far cheaper than CK hubs and do not require fancy tool to maintain them.

ugo.santalucia

Mr Evil wrote:

Titanium is nearly twice the weight of aluminium and it's too hard for good braking. Luckily nobody makes titanium rims

napoleond

Oh my. Ohhhhh my.

mr_evil

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Titanium is nearly twice the weight of aluminium and it's too hard for good braking. Luckily nobody makes titanium rims

The weight is also a reason not to make Ti hubs. Hardness doesn't make braking worse (titanium is softer than ceramic which works ok for a braking surface, while soft carbon fibre is terrible). Royce also make disc hubs...

rolf_f

Mr Evil wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Titanium is nearly twice the weight of aluminium and it's too hard for good braking. Luckily nobody makes titanium rims

The weight is also a reason not to make Ti hubs. Hardness doesn't make braking worse (titanium is softer than ceramic which works ok for a braking surface, while soft carbon fibre is terrible). Royce also make disc hubs...

Quote = Mr Confused!

ugo.santalucia

Ceramic brakes well when it is porous, titanium is not porous and just like steel will give crap braking

Rolf, what the fuxk you're on about?

giant_man

gorgeous, looking forward to seeing this build ...

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Ceramic brakes well when it is porous, titanium is not porous and just like steel will give crap braking

Rolf, what the fuxk you're on about?

I think Mr Evil is getting a bit muddled in his arguments and should probably just concede that there are better reasons to select rim material than it making a nice aesthetic match with the hubs!

mr_evil

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Ceramic brakes well when it is porous, titanium is not porous and just like steel will give crap braking...

Titanium behaves similarly to aluminium when it comes to friction. Both materials form an oxide layer, parts of which break off, leaving a rough, high-friction surface behind. Thus I wouldn't be surprised if the braking performance was much closer to aluminium than steel.

cycleclinic

Can you imagine the price of a Ti rim and it would be at least 50% heavier Ti hubs yes ti rims a definate no. Beside when did 437g for a pair of hubs with a lock ring become heavy. Just right in my book.

And yes Royce do disc hubs and I must give cliff a call to see if he will do another special.

cycleclinic

I have built them. I initally had planned to do 3x lacing on the DS but it appears for 3x lacing the NDS flange needs to be rotated 15 degrees anticlockwise when looking at the NDS. Lesson learnt there so I have a hub drilled for 2x DS.

I have used Pacenti SL23 rims now.

However the wheels with 2x lacing DS work very well. I raced on them last night and my they feel good. The narrow (22mm) veloflex corsa's didn't though very sketchy through the corners and they are coming off. The wheels are incrediably stiff due to the enomous 9 degree NDS rear bacing angle. Tension DS is 1100-1150N and NDS tension is around 800N. DS rear spokes silver sapim race/alloy nipples and other spokes silver sapim laser/alloy nipples.

Weight is 1590g so I could have built lighter but a couple of hundred grams extra does not slow me down
I am very happy with these.

ugo.santalucia

I see you have used the Sapim washers at the hub. I would recommend the DT Proline ones. The Sapim are too thick... I bought a batch but only use for hubs with huge holes, like Novatec. The DT are much thinner and go well on every hub.

Did you say the tyre came off the rim? Didn't get that bit...

cycleclinic

Yes they are a bit thick aren't they. I am not a fan of them as the spokes don't look like they have sat properly however puching them did not seem to make much difference. As the flanges are only 3mm thick I felt a washer might be needed to avoid spoke breakage so I used what I had. The tyre did not come off they just felt sketchy in the corners compared the GP4000s tyres I am used to. I ended up on the grass a few times at cornering speeds that would kept me on the tarmac with grippier tyres. That's my experiment with veloflex over they also have cut up quick quickly (two rides on training one a race) which is not good either. So the conti's or maybe vittoria corsa's are going on and the veloflexs are coming off. Good race though I managed to keep up with some cat 3's (staggered start got dropped initally and then picked up the pace) on a very windy evening so there is hope yet.