The traditional jazz thread

pinno

Not modern - hate modern; you can stuff your Courtney Pine. For me, trad jazz ended when Benny Goodman retired to classical in 1952 bar Chris Barber and a handful of others such as the Rosenburg trio.

I want to explore more. I miss K Clarke's jazz on Sundays on Radio 4. Should have taken notes and followed it up but that was then and this is now with a little bit more spare time on the horizon to be spent mainly cycling and some trivial pursuits.

Love Django, Beiderbeck. I have the CBS recordings of Louis Armstrong which include the St James Infirmary Blues, Muskrat Ramble, St Louis Blues etc.

Any suggestions?

nathancom

Art Tatum and Coleman Hawkins. Not sure I could imagine Jazz without Charlie Parker and Miles.

If you are looking for something a little less obvious then I would recommend Bill Evans and early Tony Scott though sounds like you are after big band stuff which isn't something I know much about.

+ Lester Young and Zoot Sims

seanoconn

slowbike

madasahattersley wrote:

I disagree about traditional ending in 1952. Almost all of Charles Mingus' good stuff was released after that date, the best of which was ~1957. Cab Calloway also released some stuff after 1960 which you'd probably call traditional.

Goodbye Pork Pie Hat was the first Mingus number I played. Wow ... the changes & flow all sound so impossible yet they fall under the fingers almost effortlessly.

What amazes me with these guys is the complexity of the chord change to the ear, yet the simple flow under the fingers.

briantrumpet

Or Count Basie - he just wanted people to smile and tap their toes .... if this doesn't work, I don't what would:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IVX8BayOCA

nathancom

Would love to hear some tracks I haven't listened to before if any have them to share. Will put this one out, one of my favourite albums that I heard first from my brother. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVUHB7oAlkk

florerider

briantrumpet wrote:

Or Count Basie - he just wanted people to smile and tap their toes .... if this doesn't work, I don't what would:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IVX8BayOCA

Often wondered on that one, are the big dance and swing bands really jazz?

Used to play trumpet so big bands resonate to me, but never really played jazz club type jazz. Probably prefer Miller to Basie. Funny thing is I have very few recordings, but get drawn to TV and radio productions.

Know what Piña means about modern, but I do like Miles Davis and Jacques Loussier.

What about Ella? And the real Nina, Ms Simone?

briantrumpet

florerider wrote:

Often wondered on that one, are the big dance and swing bands really jazz?

Used to play trumpet so big bands resonate to me, but never really played jazz club type jazz. Probably prefer Miller to Basie. Funny thing is I have very few recordings, but get drawn to TV and radio productions.

Big band is a curious genre - born out of jazz, though often the arrangements are very prescriptive, up to the point where the soloists are let loose (as they really are in the linked 'Corner Pocket').

I like Basie, one because his arrangements really do show of the jazz solos, but also because the emphasis is on the groove, the swing. Miller doesn't do it for me as the emphasis is on the tune, not the groove, and solos are incidental, or much the same every time - very little jazz in evidence.

florerider

I recall an ethanol fueled George Melly gig with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIrXOZClb3E&feature=kp

arran77

seanoconn wrote:

Is that The Dear Diva?

jawooga

BrianTrumpet. I agree with your thoughts on Miller. I am no expert, but the recordings to me sound like playing the notes, though no doubt good musicians.

There used to be a good Dixie 6 piece played around Exeter called the Panama Jazz Kings. My dad used to take me to see them after Wednesday night brass band rehearsal, err 18 years or so ago, scary! since then, trad for me meant 6 piece Dixie.

pinno

Not in to big band. It's not the improvised harmonic counterpoint that is Rag time or Dixie. Too much like swing.

Kid Ory is good

Are there any recordings of 'Stride'?

Cheers for Art Tatum - would be nice to get better audio than Youtube. Not sure about John Coltrane.

nathancom

Spotify desktop is unlimited and free and has a great catalogue of Jazz. Worth a download and sign up,if you don't already use it.

florerider

Different question

What are good labels, for example the Biederbecke I gave up on due to such poor quality recordings. CBS seems ok, or it is for Miles anyway.

As to big band, the old man used to play it so was brought up with it. also inherited his "Gene Krupa" drum sticks, not really useful for a trumpeter

pinno

Dunno, the only Bix I have is a not very good copy but whilst we are waiting for someone to suggest a good label...

We can sit back and enjoy this

nathancom

This is good too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yyk5lTFQs0

pblakeney

pinarello001 wrote:

Dunno, the only Bix I have is a not very good copy but whilst we are waiting for someone to suggest a good label...

We can sit back and enjoy this

Take a look at Linn and see if any of their acts are to your liking.
Taste aside, the recordings are top notch.

pinno

PBlakeney wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

Dunno, the only Bix I have is a not very good copy but whilst we are waiting for someone to suggest a good label...

We can sit back and enjoy this

Take a look at Linn and see if any of their acts are to your liking.
Taste aside, the recordings are top notch.

Okay, i'll do that...but in the meanwhile

So full of soul...

Barbarossa

I don't listen to a lot of pre-bebop music, but artists I do like from that era are; Sidney Bechet - a pioneer of the sax. Bessie Smith, Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins.

Like nathancom, I can't really imagine Jazz without Parker and Trane.

BelgianBeerGeek

Quite like a bit of jazz. Love Miles Davies. Mrs BBGeek away for a couple of days so can play a bit

Someone mentioned Django. I really like a bit of gypsy jazz. Coincidentally, I was speaking to a neighbour who is an astonishingly good guitarist and is quitting his 9 to 5 job to go full time. He has supplied me with a CD but needs a website to promote the Django experience.

Feel free to shoot me down hip cats, but I am really into the Neil Cowley Trio. Anyone who tells me "I hate jazz", I get them onto these guys. Cool.

(No linkies, you can search for this sh** yourselves).

clickrumble

You need Thelonius Monk.

pinno

madasahattersley wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

Not in to big band. It's not the improvised harmonic counterpoint that is Rag time or Dixie. Too much like swing.

But in the OP you said you liked Benny Goodman, no? If there's one person who epitomises big band/swing then it's fair to say most people would say King Benny!

Just coincidence - 1952. The trad jazz of the 30's and 40's had fizzled out and Django had died ('47 I think).

@BBG - ask him to get in contact with J Vickers at Vintage Strings, Cheltenham. JV does nothing but Django gigs with his violinist who does the Grapelli bit.

http://www.vintage-strings.co.uk/

BelgianBeerGeek

pinarello001 wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

Not in to big band. It's not the improvised harmonic counterpoint that is Rag time or Dixie. Too much like swing.

But in the OP you said you liked Benny Goodman, no? If there's one person who epitomises big band/swing then it's fair to say most people would say King Benny!

Just coincidence - 1952. The trad jazz of the 30's and 40's had fizzled out and Django had died ('47 I think).

@BBG - ask him to get in contact with J Vickers at Vintage Strings, Cheltenham. JV does nothing but Django gigs with his violinist who does the Grapelli bit.

http://www.vintage-strings.co.uk/

Cheers Piña (Señor Piñata?) Stupid iPad
He already plays in a trio and has up to now played at weddings, bar mitzvahs etc. I think he's cool but what do I know. I will pass on your red hot tip.

pinno

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

Not in to big band. It's not the improvised harmonic counterpoint that is Rag time or Dixie. Too much like swing.

But in the OP you said you liked Benny Goodman, no? If there's one person who epitomises big band/swing then it's fair to say most people would say King Benny!

Just coincidence - 1952. The trad jazz of the 30's and 40's had fizzled out and Django had died ('47 I think).

@BBG - ask him to get in contact with J Vickers at Vintage Strings, Cheltenham. JV does nothing but Django gigs with his violinist who does the Grapelli bit.

http://www.vintage-strings.co.uk/

Cheers Piña (Señor Piñata?) Stupid iPad
He already plays in a trio and has up to now played at weddings, bar mitzvahs etc. I think he's cool but what do I know. I will pass on your red hot tip.

Django at a bar Mitzvah ?!

pinno

Wouldn''t this have been more appropriate?

Alain Quay

Love how 80-90 years of jazz is brushed aside as 'modern'. There's an awful lot went on between Benny Goodman and Courtney Pine.

pinno

Alain Quay wrote:

Love how 80-90 years of jazz is brushed aside as 'modern'. There's an awful lot went on between Benny Goodman and Courtney Pine.

Traditional jazz for some eclectic one's like me is from the early Ragtime to early fifties. So many artists (Chris Barber*) et al just did covers of everything that was done before them. So 35 years is quite a wide period of time when you consider that each pop era, fifties, sixties, seventies etc had there own immediately recognisable style and that's only a decade per genre.

*Still good nonetheless.

Now if you go see Mr Vickers at Vintage Strings, for him, trad jazz died in 47 along with Django. Different strokes...

"Love how 80-90 years of jazz is brushed aside as 'modern'. There's an awful lot went on between Benny Goodman and Courtney Pine."

Care to elaborate?