Jyrobike - paging EKE, Parents and Chris Froome

dhope

Saw a link on the Beeb and clicked through to Kickstarter. A balancing bike, rather than a balance bike, for learning.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/52 ... ce-bicycle
Seems pretty cool, hopefully enough to give a bit of confidence to a learner. And you can buy the wheel alone.

+2 to FCN though...

rubertoe

there could be a few at my club that need one of those.

Long_Time_Lurker

I saw this and like the idea. My 7 year-old daughter shows no interest in learning to cycle.
I think that maybe she is scared, so anything to help give confidence is a good idea.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Hmm. You know what really works? Running in front of them with an ice cream. Just a little bit faster than they can cycle.

And shouting at them. Never underestimate the value of yelling at them in a semi deranged, semi furious tone. Really helps them to focus.

asprilla

Erm, doesn't this act just like stabilisers?

Surely with this kinds don't have to worry about balancing correctly and so they don't learn how to?

slowbike

Asprilla wrote:

Erm, doesn't this act just like stabilisers?

Surely with this kinds don't have to worry about balancing correctly and so they don't learn how to?

I think the idea is that you can slow down the gyroscope to a point that it stabilises less ...

As always, the problem with aids is that quite often the user will be come dependant on them and removing them is harder than just learning to do it without the aids to start with.

dhope

Asprilla wrote:

Erm, doesn't this act just like stabilisers?

Surely with this kinds don't have to worry about balancing correctly and so they don't learn how to?

As Slowbike mentioned, doesn't stabilise completely, just provides a help. Then you can use the remote to dial down the gyro so it'll not act as strongly. The rider can still lean into a corner and use their bodyweight to effect a change of direction by the look of it.

EKE_38BPM

Asprilla wrote:

Erm, doesn't this act just like stabilisers?

Surely with this kinds don't have to worry about balancing correctly and so they don't learn how to?

My thoughts exactly.

In my experience, kids who have had balance bikes are the quickest to learn and have the most confidence.
Kids who have used a bike with stabilisers are the hardest (even harder than kids who have never had a bike) to teach.

The classic thing that kids who rode with stabilisers do is sit on the bike, put both feet on the pedals and fall over sideways because they are used to the stabilisers keeping the bike upright. In one of the videos something very similar happens: cyclist is "riding", comes to a stop and almost falls over sideways (saved by parent) because they are used to the bike automatically staying upright. They haven't really understood how balance and stability work with bikes.

Learning how to balance is the hardest part of learning how to ride a bike, so is best done early and with little assistance (but lots of patience) IMHO. This seems a bit like learning to drive an automatic car: you get a really good idea of what is going on, but when put in a manual car, you will find it very difficult (if not impossible) to drive.
I'm not a fan of the Jyrobike.

EKE_38BPM

I can see it being of some use for kids with some disabilities, but not for an able-bodied kid though.

dhope

EKE_38BPM wrote:

In my experience, kids who have had balance bikes are the quickest to learn and have the most confidence.
Kids who have used a bike with stabilisers are the hardest (even harder than kids who have never had a bike) to teach.

But surely the point of this is that it is essentially a balance bike.
Starts off helping you a lot. Then you can dial down the assistance, and the kid I expect will barely notice that they're having to balance a little more themselves. Then dial it down some more.
The auto/manual car isn't a good analogy. Would have thought it would be like teaching someone to walk the tightrope with a really long pole (horizontal, not vertical), then gradually shortening the width of the pole. The principle remains the same throughout, just the level of assistance slowly reduces.

EKE_38BPM

dhope wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

In my experience, kids who have had balance bikes are the quickest to learn and have the most confidence.
Kids who have used a bike with stabilisers are the hardest (even harder than kids who have never had a bike) to teach.

But surely the point of this is that it is essentially a balance bike.
Starts off helping you a lot. Then you can dial down the assistance, and the kid I expect will barely notice that they're having to balance a little more themselves. Then dial it down some more.
The auto/manual car isn't a good analogy. Would have thought it would be like teaching someone to walk the tightrope with a really long pole (horizontal, not vertical), then gradually shortening the width of the pole. The principle remains the same throughout, just the level of assistance slowly reduces.

Good analogy.
Considering it usually only takes me about two hours or so (in two or three sessions) to teach someone how to ride, I think this is a good idea, but unnecessary.

Take the pedals off, drop the saddle so that both feet of the trainee can be placed flat on the floor to make a balance bike.
Sit the trainee on the saddle and walk around.
Get faster until the trainee can scoot with both feet off the ground.
When they can scoot, add the right pedal. Teach the trainee how to set the pedal with the right foot and push off fast enough that they can balance, then stop, set the pedal and do it again. Repeat until they are doing it so well that they are bored.
When they can do that, add the other pedal. The big push off is so strong that they can balance they should now have the time to get their left foot onto the left pedal and as long as they keep pedaling, they can now ride.
My record for the above is 63 minutes from novice (never been on a bike before) to cycling around the park with a MASSIVE smile on his face.

The Jyrobike will not make it into my training kit.

EKE_38BPM

I've just watched the BBC video for the first time.

The inventor and the mum did more running alongside the kid than I ever do. I bet them mum was regretting her choice of heels and pencil skirt (paging the pre-parental correctness gone mad DDD to the thread), as the skirt reduced her stride length to a hobble and the shoes added the risk of a broken ankle at every step. "You told me I'd only have to watch and then be interviewed!"

The interview with the kid sums it up perfectly:"It felt like I knew how to ride a bike, without stabilisers." Not "I now know how to ride a bike without stabilisers." Big difference. Kid did the classic both feet on the pedals whilst stationary.

This seems to be aimed at 'parents' with more money than time, so they can afford the Jyrobike but can't afford to spend a few hours spread over a few days in the park teaching little Jocasta/Rupert how to ride properly.

nicklouse

EKE_38BPM wrote:

This seems to be aimed at 'parents' with more money than time, so they can afford the Jyrobike but can't afford to spend a few hours spread over a few days in the park teaching little Jocasta/Rupert how to ride properly.

My thoughts when I saw it.

guinea

EKE, I'd like to PM you, but I just get server errors.

Do you teach folk at home? My wife can't ride a bike but would like to. I'm in Epping.

I can be reached at macinnes at well known email service provided by google dot com

EKE_38BPM

guinea wrote:

EKE, I'd like to PM you, but I just get server errors.

Do you teach folk at home? My wife can't ride a bike but would like to. I'm in Epping.

I can be reached at macinnes at well known email service provided by google dot com

Email sent.

EKE_38BPM

guinea wrote:

Do you teach folk at home? My wife can't ride a bike but would like to.

She can after 35 minutes of tuition from me!
Teaching adults is a bit different from teaching kids, but it does go to show that the Jyrowheel is for people with more money than time.

If any parent is considering buying a Jyrobike, I'd suggest buying a normal kids bike and a session with a cycle instructor instead.

The Rookie

Faster and cheaper!

My girls both learnt using the pedals off and seat just low enough method, helps that our back garden lawn is a gentle downhill for about 50 feet (so they initial start (once on pedals) was easier, would say both learned in about an hour and due to the nature of the garden, very little parental help required other than comments from the patio fueled by a beer or two.

spasypaddy

i might buy one just to get some customer happiness...

bompington

When Bomp Jr & Bompette came along, a) I didn't own a bike and had hardly used one for years, and b) I had neither heard of nor seen a balance bike. Stabilisers, parental support and encouragement did the job OK if not that fast: Jr got it quite quick but Bompette took longer (she did ride 9 miles the day after she first went solo aged 6 though).

Ten years later, Bompetta had a balance bike. She could balance on it just fine after only a few minutes, aged 3, and it basically took her 5 minutes to go solo on the Islabike she got for her 4th birthday.

Now that's an unscientific anecdote, for sure, but my experience and that of pretty much anyone who's ever tried it say that balance bikes (or pedals removed) work. Does anyone have any evidence at all of someone failing to learn on one?
Which means that stabilisers and, especially, Jyrobikes, are a useless (or actively counterproductive) waste of money.

kurako

I tried this technique with my 4 yo girl. She's already got a balance bike. Cue tears when I took off the pedals. "BUT I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO BALANCE!!!!!!!" Don't think she quite understood the full process. Will try again but next time I'll take the pedals off my own bike too

slowbike

Kurako wrote:

I tried this technique with my 4 yo girl. She's already got a balance bike. Cue tears when I took off the pedals. "BUT I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO BALANCE!!!!!!!" Don't think she quite understood the full process. Will try again but next time I'll take the pedals off my own bike too

"our pedals need a service ... " ... got our niece to ride without stabalisers by taking her brothers stabalisers off "for a service" whilst we were at the park .. she's one of those who needs to think it's her idea rather than be told what to do, just takes a bit more thinking around the problem!

EKE_38BPM

Kurako wrote:

I tried this technique with my 4 yo girl. She's already got a balance bike. Cue tears when I took off the pedals. "BUT I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO BALANCE!!!!!!!" Don't think she quite understood the full process. Will try again but next time I'll take the pedals off my own bike too

I'm a bit confused. Kurakoetta can already balance on a balance bike and when you got her a pedal bike you took the pedals off?!
I think I'd cry as well if you did that, assuming you took both pedals off. If it was only one pedal, than I understand why you did what you did.

kurako

Hmm well its a bit of a bigger bike so I thought she would need to make sure she can handle it. The balance bike is getting a bit small with saddle as far up as it'll go but the new bike has the saddle pretty much as low as it'll go. I'll skip step 1 next time. She loves riding it with the stabilisers but I can see her getting into bad habits if I don't get them off soon. I was really slow to start riding on two wheels I must have been 6 or 7 I was definitely at primary school.

guinea

EKE_38BPM wrote:

guinea wrote:

Do you teach folk at home? My wife can't ride a bike but would like to.

She can after 35 minutes of tuition from me!
Teaching adults is a bit different from teaching kids, but it does go to show that the Jyrowheel is for people with more money than time.

If any parent is considering buying a Jyrobike, I'd suggest buying a normal kids bike and a session with a cycle instructor instead.

Just to add a few words here.

EKE_38BPM popped round to my place on Wednesday night to teach my very nervous, belligerent, passive aggressive wife to ride a bike. To say she was pissed off at me for booking this session would be a massive understatement.

However, she agreed to give it a try, even though she knew she wouldn't be able to do it.

Fast forward 35 minutes and the training worked. I'm now married to a cyclist who is absolutely delighted with herself.

Well done EKE and thanks from the pair of us. It's time to add another bike to the collection.

slowbike

guinea wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

guinea wrote:

Do you teach folk at home? My wife can't ride a bike but would like to.

She can after 35 minutes of tuition from me!
Teaching adults is a bit different from teaching kids, but it does go to show that the Jyrowheel is for people with more money than time.

If any parent is considering buying a Jyrobike, I'd suggest buying a normal kids bike and a session with a cycle instructor instead.

Just to add a few words here.

EKE_38BPM popped round to my place on Wednesday night to teach my very nervous, belligerent, passive aggressive wife to ride a bike. To say she was pissed off at me for booking this session would be a massive understatement.

However, she agreed to give it a try, even though she knew she wouldn't be able to do it.

Fast forward 35 minutes and the training worked. I'm now married to a cyclist who is absolutely delighted with herself.

Well done EKE and thanks from the pair of us. It's time to add another bike to the collection.

You do know it was all her idea don't you ...

nicklouse

guinea wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

guinea wrote:

Do you teach folk at home? My wife can't ride a bike but would like to.

She can after 35 minutes of tuition from me!
Teaching adults is a bit different from teaching kids, but it does go to show that the Jyrowheel is for people with more money than time.

If any parent is considering buying a Jyrobike, I'd suggest buying a normal kids bike and a session with a cycle instructor instead.

Just to add a few words here.

EKE_38BPM popped round to my place on Wednesday night to teach my very nervous, belligerent, passive aggressive wife to ride a bike. To say she was pissed off at me for booking this session would be a massive understatement.

However, she agreed to give it a try, even though she knew she wouldn't be able to do it.

Fast forward 35 minutes and the training worked. I'm now married to a cyclist who is absolutely delighted with herself.

Well done EKE and thanks from the pair of us. It's time to add another bike to the collection.

Excellent.

veronese68

Well done, EKE. :-)

EKE_38BPM

guinea wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

guinea wrote:

Do you teach folk at home? My wife can't ride a bike but would like to.

She can after 35 minutes of tuition from me!
Teaching adults is a bit different from teaching kids, but it does go to show that the Jyrowheel is for people with more money than time.

If any parent is considering buying a Jyrobike, I'd suggest buying a normal kids bike and a session with a cycle instructor instead.

Just to add a few words here.

EKE_38BPM popped round to my place on Wednesday night to teach my very nervous, belligerent, passive aggressive wife to ride a bike. To say she was pissed off at me for booking this session would be a massive understatement.

However, she agreed to give it a try, even though she knew she wouldn't be able to do it.

Fast forward 35 minutes and the training worked. I'm now married to a cyclist who is absolutely delighted with herself.

Well done EKE and thanks from the pair of us. It's time to add another bike to the collection.

Cheers Guinea. It was nice meeting you both (& Guinea jnr), teaching Mrs Guinea and talking bikes with you.

EKE_38BPM

Kurako wrote:

Hmm well its a bit of a bigger bike so I thought she would need to make sure she can handle it. The balance bike is getting a bit small with saddle as far up as it'll go but the new bike has the saddle pretty much as low as it'll go. I'll skip step 1 next time. She loves riding it with the stabilisers but I can see her getting into bad habits if I don't get them off soon. I was really slow to start riding on two wheels I must have been 6 or 7 I was definitely at primary school.

So, she could balance on a balance bike. Then she was put onto a bike with stabilisers. Then pedals and stabilisers off.
A friend has done the first two steps as you and I've been told off for telling him he's done the wrong thing but I can understand his reasoning for doing it. His next step should be the same as yours.

I think the best way of doing things would have been: balance bike -> bike with pedals off -> bike with one (right) pedal -> both pedals -> weep a little bit as your little one gains their first bit of independence and starts wanting expensive presents. N+1

kurako

On Saturday she dropped the bomb 'Daddy take off my stabilisers I want to ride the bike without stabilisers'. Off we went to the path at the top of the street. A few wobbles at first. I had to explain not to have two feet on the pedals if she wasn't moving (at least until she could track stand). She also had a habit of taking a hand off to try to catch me when things got a bit hairy. Now she is starting and stopping without any help. Really was pretty simple in the end.

So balance bikes are pretty good. The only issue is changing size of bike. She really did think pedals + stabilisers were a good progression. In hindsight I'd say just getting the bigger size of bike, balancing for a bit to get used to the transition and then adding the pedals would have been the best way. That's what I'll do with 2.0 in a couple of years....

EKE_38BPM

Congratulations to your nipper.

Kurako wrote:

...In hindsight I'd say just getting the bigger size of bike, balancing for a bit to get used to the transition and then adding the pedals would have been the best way...

I agree. Stabilisers only introduce bad habits.