Is Altitude the new EPO?

ridgerider

Mentioned this to FF as I passed him in the street today...

Do you have to a be a Columbian, or live up a mountain for most of the year, to win a grand tour?

Fewer mountains finishes to level the playing field?

skylla

This shouldn't have been too difficult to answer for FF?

RideOnTime

Our playing field is up a mountain.
It is level though.

deejay

Athletics have been doing it for years.
Distance running is won by Africans.
Now you have an African winning the TDF. :!:

frenchfighter

Good to see you briefly yesterday RR. I do not think it is a pre-requisite to greatness but think it makes a huge difference. I was surprised by what Wegelius described after he came down from altitude. All a bit more generic training these days between the top pros but maybe it was before and we just didnt read about it everywhere.

iainf72

Obligatory "Read the Sports Gene" post.

Also, from a genetic perspective Froome is European.

markhewitt1978

Just because you are born in Kenya doesn't make you African in the heritage sense.

sherer

well according to Froome it helps that they don't seem to do any drug testing on the mountain of choice these days

RideOnTime

Ridgerider wrote:

Mentioned this to FF as I passed him in the street today...

Do you have to a be a Columbian, or live up a mountain for most of the year, to win a grand tour?

Fewer mountains finishes to level the playing field?

Hold on... rewind...

You passed FF in the street and you said "Is altitude the new EPO?"

You didn't say "hello" or "good morning" or "nice weather we're having"

you said "Is altitude the new EPO?"

That's a London thing I reckon. :shock:

ridgerider

So now that anyone can win a mountain stage with the right altitude preparation, should race planners be a bit less generic in designing GT routes?

Or is there a better blood test to limit altitude living to a reasonable amount to allow family life to continue as it should (or as much as it can for a sportsman).

Read some recent messages from ten Dam. He is stuck up a mountain in America somewhere getting bored and watching ice hockey games on TV.

Pross

How many of the current crop of GT contenders were actually born and raised at altitude? Altitude training has been part of endurance sport for years but I don't think Teide is used so much for its altitude as for its weather, a long and steady climb and a decent hotel base. The hotel they tend to use is at 2,000m apparently so whilst it's reasonably high it isn't like they are at significant altitude as they would be in the Andes or even possibly some US / Canadian ski resorts.

Richmond Racer

Pross wrote:

How many of the current crop of GT contenders were actually born and raised at altitude? Altitude training has been part of endurance sport for years but I don't think Teide is used so much for its altitude as for its weather, a long and steady climb and a decent hotel base. The hotel they tend to use is at 2,000m apparently so whilst it's reasonably high it isn't like they are at significant altitude as they would be in the Andes or even possibly some US / Canadian ski resorts.

Si. Garmin tend to use Sierra Nevada for their altitude training camps

Richmond Racer

Ridgerider wrote:

So now that anyone can win a mountain stage with the right altitude preparation, should race planners be a bit less generic in designing GT routes?

Or is there a better blood test to limit altitude living to a reasonable amount to allow family life to continue as it should (or as much as it can for a sportsman).

Read some recent messages from ten Dam. He is stuck up a mountain in America somewhere getting bored and watching ice hockey games on TV.

They tend to do a couple of 2-week blocks in the season - not exactly all-consuming. What about the Colombians who tend to go back home - and up at altitude - for a month or so mid-season?

slim_boy_fat

iainf72 wrote:

Obligatory "Read the Sports Gene" post.

Also, from a genetic perspective Froome is European.

Indeed. Explains it all.

UncleMonty

Froome may not be ethnically African but he was born at altitude and lived there till he was 12, that's some long term conditioning he's gone through, (Nirobi is 1,661m / 5,450 ft according to Wikki).

I've also notice he's good in the heat when we seen many southern European's struggle.

I don't think either point is a coincidence

dish_dash

UncleMonty wrote:

Froome may not be ethnically African but he was born at altitude and lived there till he was 12, that's some long term conditioning he's gone through, (Nirobi is 1,661m / 5,450 ft according to Wikki).

I've also notice he's good in the heat when we seen many southern European's struggle.

I don't think either point is a coincidence

And Johannesburg is at 1,753 m (5,751 ft), also from Wiki

ridgerider

RideOnTime wrote:

Ridgerider wrote:

Mentioned this to FF as I passed him in the street today...

Do you have to a be a Columbian, or live up a mountain for most of the year, to win a grand tour?

Fewer mountains finishes to level the playing field?

Hold on... rewind...

You passed FF in the street and you said "Is altitude the new EPO?"

You didn't say "hello" or "good morning" or "nice weather we're having"

you said "Is altitude the new EPO?"

That's a London thing I reckon. :shock:

Without wishing to disclose the full details of our private conversation, I don't think I am giving too much away if I told you that the first thing I said to him was...

"Do you like the bricks?"

"Is Altitude the new EPO?" was perhaps the second thing I said to him.

Remember...he talks in pictures and treats each discussion point like a separate thread. It can get confusing sometimes when he suddenly, without warning, continues a converation he last contributed to during the TdF in 2013.

RichN95.

David Epstein has also pointed out that a very beneficial combination is having lowland genetics and highland birth/upbringing.

ridgerider

Back on topic...What I was wondering was as there now seems to be a simple formula for winning mountain stages, should GTs be designed to be less climber orientated?

above_the_cows

Ridgerider wrote:

Remember...he talks in pictures and treats each discussion point like a separate thread. It can get confusing sometimes when he suddenly, without warning, continues a converation he last contributed to during the TdF in 2013.

I just spat choccy soya milk on my shiny new mac book air. :evil:

TheBigBean

Ridgerider wrote:

Back on topic...What I was wondering was as there now seems to be a simple formula for winning mountain stages, should GTs be designed to be less climber orientated?

What's the simple formula?

ridgerider

Live at altitude (but not in a tent).

sherer

Ridgerider wrote:

Back on topic...What I was wondering was as there now seems to be a simple formula for winning mountain stages, should GTs be designed to be less climber orientated?

I've said to my friends i'd like to see a tour without the high mountains. I'd like a tour that someone like Cancellara would be able to do well in rather than just the mountain goats

skylla

RichN95 wrote:

David Epstein has also pointed out that a very beneficial combination is having lowland genetics and highland birth/upbringing.

I'm afraid the science is not as clear cut as he makes you believe. As a matter of fact, it's a topic of much debate and there's a lot of variables. One extreme example is of course a measurable increase in miscarriages of 'lowland' women [travelling/living] at [high] altitude. There's still a lot to be uncovered and not just concerning body physics and endurance training.

dish_dash

Ridgerider wrote:

Remember...he talks in pictures and treats each discussion point like a separate thread. It can get confusing sometimes when he suddenly, without warning, continues a converation he last contributed to during the TdF in 2013.

TheBigBean

Ridgerider wrote:

Live at altitude (but not in a tent).

What's your sample size for the assertion?

ridgerider

TheBigBean wrote:

Ridgerider wrote:

Live at altitude (but not in a tent).

What's your sample size for the assertion?

The result of the Giro, and the whereabout of everyone who wants to win the TdF.

Pross

Ridgerider wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Ridgerider wrote:

Live at altitude (but not in a tent).

What's your sample size for the assertion?

The result of the Giro, and the whereabout of everyone who wants to win the TdF.

San Gavino Monreale altitude c. 50 - 100m
Gien, France altitude c. 100-200m
Policoro, Italy situated more or less at sea level
Not sure where Majka comes from in Poland but on the whole Poland isn't known for being at altitude
Amersfoort, Netherlands altitude c. 50m
Katherine, Australia altitude c. 210m
Victoria, Canada altitude c. 0 - 50m
Cacak, Croatia altitude c. 200 - 300m

So, not convinced

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

Amersfoort, Netherlands altitude c. 50m

Err it might not be just to the east of the Gooi, which isn't below sea level but I don't think Amersfoort is 50m above sea level. More like 1-5m

Pross

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

Amersfoort, Netherlands altitude c. 50m

Err it might not be just to the east of the Gooi, which isn't below sea level but I don't think Amersfoort is 50m above sea level. More like 1-5m

Doh, that's the latitude! Elevation is 8m apparently so probably where the Dutch do their altitude training

Daz555

sherer wrote:

Ridgerider wrote:

Back on topic...What I was wondering was as there now seems to be a simple formula for winning mountain stages, should GTs be designed to be less climber orientated?

I've said to my friends i'd like to see a tour without the high mountains. I'd like a tour that someone like Cancellara would be able to do well in rather than just the mountain goats

Yep we should see lumpy, punchy GTs thrown in from time to time. Testers and goats should not be the only kind of riders "allowed" to win a GT.