Fast Forward F2A or Pacenti SL23 build?

86inch

Has anyone got/used this wheelset?
I am tempted as Evans have them for £505 which is about £100 over my budget, but perhaps could be persuaded.
Seems good value for DT Swiss 240 hubs and "handbuilt" in Holland spec.

On the other hand, i quite like the look of Pacenti SL23 rims and i could get a build with these (not on 240 hubs) from the Cycleclinic for around £400-ish, which admittedly is slightly heavier (not that i'm concerned about that) but more on budget.

Anyone got any thoughts on relative merits between them, i am perhaps leaning toward the Pacenti.
BTW, i'm not remotely tempted by Archetypes so please don't suggest those as an alternative!

Grill

All wheels are handbuilt...

Get the Pacenti with 6800 hubs or save a bundle on Archetypes (then you may have cash for 9000 hubs).

86inch

Grill wrote:

All wheels are handbuilt...

Get the Pacenti with 6800 hubs or save a bundle on Archetypes (then you may have cash for 9000 hubs).

No Archetypes !
Also, 6800 are 32-spoke minimum, which is slightly overkill with an SL23 rim (so i understand). I also have developed an aversion to cup and cone. My own RS-61 hubs have failed and very few i've owned recently have been any good. A far cry from the Record hubs of the 80/90's that i used to use.
Of course, DA9000 would probably be superb, but i neither want nor need them.
I'd prefer to stick with cartridge bearing hubs for now, as probably the best bang-for-buck. I did have some Fulcrum Red Winds and the bearings on those were excellent and easy to change.

Grill

Then go with Hope hubs, although you're missing out on pretty much the most robust hubs built because of your experiences with entry level kit...

Grill

Edit- Looks like you deleted your post, but here's the info anyway.

DA 9000 hubs- 240 (Evans and Tweeks)
Pacentil SL23 - 170 (DCR Wheels)

Which comes to 410. Spokes, nipples and build won't cost you more than 100 quid which puts you at the same price as the Fast Forwards you're looking at.

cycleclinic

Grill if the OP want to buy the parts online that is fine but that is fine if he knows a wheelsbuilder who builds not on commerically basis, If however the OP is planning on using a shop then this model may not work as the shop may not take on the work or charge a higher labour rate because they do not have the profit in the parts. Consider that a wheel build may take 3 hours for a pair that is alot of labour in most shops so it may not turn out cheaper. If the OP wants to have a go at building himself then go ahead and buy the parts online (also DCR wheels will charge you postage on the rim price pusshing it up a bit).

You forget Grill running a shop is expensive and £100 for spokes and labour will buy you 52 black spaim race spokes and about 1.5 to 2 hrs labour in other words the rear done and the front one laced for the customer to finish off.

Grill

thecycleclinic wrote:

Grill if the OP want to buy the parts online that is fine but that is fine if he knows a wheelsbuilder who builds not on commerically basis, If however the OP is planning on using a shop then this model may not work as the shop may not take on the work or charge a higher labour rate because they do not have the profit in the parts. Consider that a wheel build may take 3 hours for a pair that is alot of labour in most shops so it may not turn out cheaper. If the OP wants to have a go at building himself then go ahead and buy the parts online (also DCR wheels will charge you postage on the rim price pusshing it up a bit).

You forget Grill running a shop is expensive and £100 for spokes and labour will buy you 52 black spaim race spokes and about 1.5 to 2 hrs labour in other words the rear done and the front one laced for the customer to finish off.

I haven't forgotten any of that, but I have no loyalty to yours or any other shop. What I've done is provide the information for the OP to use at his discretion. The OP's deleted post basically said I was full of it and it wasn't possible. Clearly it is.

cycleclinic

I am not expecting anyone to have any loyalty to any shop (that what a free market and competition is all about without it and it is what keeps business alive) the deleted post does make it difficult to follow a thread properly. No offense intended grill.

Grill

thecycleclinic wrote:

I am not expecting anyone to have any loyalty to any shop (that what a free market and competition is all about without it and it is what keeps business alive) the deleted post does make it difficult to follow a thread properly. No offense intended grill.

There will always be a need for shops as well as skilled professionals at said shops. People will inherently do what is best for them. Sometimes I need the service so I go to a shop, other times I'd rather save the cash so I source things myself.