Breaking rear NDS spokes on Hope pro 3 hubs

surfgod

Why am I breaking rear non drive side spokes on my r/wheel? I'm using a hope pro 3 hubs, Velocity 32h A23 rims built 3X
Has anyone had similar problem using the above components?

desweller

What spokes?

ugo.santalucia

1) Because your wheels have done a lot of miles

2) Because your wheels have not done a lot of miles but they have been built by an incompetent

It's one of the two

vorsprung

Rebuild the wheel with new spokes, Sapim or DT Swiss. Ensure that the tension is in the correct range. Ensure the wheel is true

You won't break any spokes for a while then

Spokes usually break because the wheel hits something on the road and the wheel has spokes with insufficient tension. Alternatively the spokes might be old or of low quality and be unable to cope with the stress

ride_whenever

ugo, you have way more wheelbuilding experience than me (obvs) could it be the 3X part as aren't these usually laced 2X. Might there be spoke head interference???

cycleclinic

32H rims are not normally laced 2x unless it is done by someone who is just playing around. 32H rims should only be done 3x anything else is kind of pointless unless the hubs flange is stupidly large which it isn't on Hope's.

Spoke break because they have fatigued. It's needs to be rebuilt and a rear wheel should have 1200N DS tension then there will enough on the NDS to slow the fatigue down. Tensions need to be even which means using a competant wheel builder.

surfgod

Thanks for all your input guys.

But this still doesn't answer my original question. Ordinarily isn't one is much more lightly to break drive side spokes, as they carry significantly higher tension? I've worked as a bike shop mechanic on and off over the years...so I can build a pretty decent pair of wheels.

I've broken only broken a handful of drive side spokes over the last thirty years, but I've never ever broken a non drive side spoke until I built these velocity A23/Hope Pro 3 wheels..????.

Strangely enough both the NDS spokes I broke were on the same climb...big ring out of the saddle rocking the bike wildly type of effort. Both breakages were on either side on the same poorly surfaced hill about six months apart... And both times I was wearing my bont a3 cycling shoes I've been tinkering with on and off for over a year...I have a love/hate relationship with bont cycling shoes..

I've used alpina spokes on this build...Yes I know really should have used sapim or dt swiss.. I intend replacing these with sapim race or maybe even sapim strong.

ride_whenever

Alpina spokes aren't the end of the world, I know merlin used to use them in a lot of builds and their wheels had an excellent reputation. I had several sets personally and never broke any.

Where are they failing? Are they exclusively heads in or out? What tension did you build the wheels to?

ugo.santalucia

surfgod wrote:

But this still doesn't answer my original question. Ordinarily isn't one is much more lightly to break drive side spokes, as they carry significantly higher tension? I've worked as a bike shop mechanic on and off over the years...so I can build a pretty decent pair of wheels.

Risking to sound rude, no, you can't... it's just the other way round: low tension induced fatigue kill them, not high tension. It's very basic stuff... you can lace and true a pair of wheels, but I am a bit skeptical whether you can build a decent pair of wheels.
IME the worst wheels I have seen were always built by shop mechanics, who did not have the time to do things properly or never learnt to build them properly... most amateurs/ home mechanics that actually take the time to read a basic manual end up doing a pretty good job instead. It's not rocket science, but you need to do the homework. I throughly recommend "The art of wheel building" by Gerd Schraner.

What is killing your spokes is too low tension on some or all the NDS spokes. Measure it and you will agree. I have used a few thousands Alpina spokes over the past 3 years and to my knowledge they are all still in one piece

cycleclinic

ugo is right to expand a bit futher though. Fatigue is caused by the cyclic loading and un loading of the spoke. The greater the % unloading the more it has fatigue so low tension spokes will fatigue faster. This is why some builders will only use hubs that give a good tension balance but 11 speed hubs have quite a poor tension balance in comparison so it is even more important to have very good NDS tension control as the if there is a one low tension spoke you can guarantee that will be the one to go first. The A23 rim is stiff enough and your spoke count is high enough for Sapim race spoke to be all that is needed. Sapim Strong would be over kill I only use those is wheels for tourists or very very heavy riders i.e 130kg+

Spoke tension on the DS should be 1200N +/5% no more. NDS tension will be what ever it is but keep it +/-5% even with an 11 speed hub you will get a reliable wheel that way. This goes for all rear wheels unless you are using a rim that cannot handle 1200N there are a few but those rims are for lighter riders only.