Buying Advice Needed - Kaffenback 2 VS Genesis Alfine 8

kwmlodozeniec

Hi all,

Need some sound buying advice. Ride to work scheme is coming up and I cannot decide between a couple of bikes:

• Planet X Kaffenback 2 Shimano Tiagra Road Bike £799.99
• Genesis Alfine 8 2014 £999.99

Both have the features I like: rack and mudguard friendly, steel frame, disk brakes, drop bars. I'm not bothered by weight, I'm 85kg so not the lightest of riders. Main type of cycling I do is leisure over cycle routes with the occasional spin off the beaten track, nothing too serious. At the moment I have a Trek FX 7.1 2011 hybrid with midge bar and triple road shifters.

Advantages of the Kaff over Genesis:

• cheaper
• better brakes
• seems better value for money
• seems that it could take a little more abuse than the genesis

Advantages of Genesis over Kaff:

• internal hub gearing
• less maintenance - chain should last longer and no trouble with dirty derailleurs etc.

Another thing that I am not sure about is the gearing range. I'm not the strongest on climbs so need a nice and easy granny gear. However, I do like to go a bit mad on a flat as and when. Any alfine 8 users that could chime in on that one?

Ideally I would like to hear from Kaff and Genesis (with a hub) owners to get an idea.

Many thanks in advance!

Kris

davis

The Alfine 8 has a fairly poor gear range; the lows aren't that low and the highs ain't that high. I've got one on my pootlebike. I wouldn't want one on my "main" bike.

I don't have that much trouble with maintaining derailleur systems either. Wipe the chain clean after every mucky ride and you'll be grand.

ETA: the chain probably will last longer though. I've got a stupidly thick single-speed chain on there and it's still perfect.

mrfpb

Have you taken into account PX's 10% service charge for Cycle to Work?

kwmlodozeniec

davis, thanks for the input on alfine. It doesn't seem it could do the hills in Brighton where I live.

mrfpb, good point! If I was to shoot for the £1k mark I would rather spend that extra £100 on accessories.

kwmlodozeniec

Any other suggestions for a steel frame touring/commuting bike with rack mounts and disk brakes?

DrLex

I'll echo Davis' comment about hub gears, albeit in respect of the Alfine 11 on my Pompetamine. I won't bother with getting another one, as the downsides of weight and oil change don't really outweighs the benefits of chain simplicity, and that's neither considering the problem of shifting on drop 'bars, nor the price differential.

Have a look at the range at the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op, and the Charge bikes.

samsbike

A steel frame is going to limit your choices. There is the cheaper genesis cdf to consider and the new giant anyroad, I think.

The other steel alternative is the specialized AWOL.

mrfpb

I have the Genesis CdF which I got for £720 with 12 months interest free credit. This was a better deal than the Kaff (which I liked the look of) as I'm not a fan of the Cycle to Work scheme. The CdF is great, really enjoying it now it's got 28mm tyres and mudguards-it doesn't have enough clearance for guards with the 35mm tyres. Nice ride even when loaded at the back.

BUT remember that the Kaff is almost identical spec to the Genesis Crois de Fer, which costs £1,149, so if you're willing to go with Cycle to Work then it is a bit of a bargain.

samsbike

mrfpb wrote:

I have the Genesis CdF which I got for £720 with 12 months interest free credit. This was a better deal than the Kaff (which I liked the look of) as I'm not a fan of the Cycle to Work scheme. The CdF is great, really enjoying it now it's got 28mm tyres and mudguards-it doesn't have enough clearance for guards with the 35mm tyres. Nice ride even when loaded at the back.

BUT remember that the Kaff is almost identical spec to the Genesis Crois de Fer, which costs £1,149, so if you're willing to go with Cycle to Work then it is a bit of a bargain.

and

I am confused how are the cdf is a better deal for £70 less as I thought the kaffenback had better brakes and groupset?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

My alfine geared hybrid is over 6 years old now, the hub has never needed to be stripped down, still going strong. Not a light bike, but then it was only a Saracen Pylon 8 with the rigid fork swapped out for a Recon Race, but then I only paid the bargain price of ~£500 for the original new bike and the forks!

In 2009, I bought a Specialized Tricross Singlecross, which has had far more use than the Saracen in recent years. While the Saracen could get me to work slightly quicker with the gears, the Tricross enabled me to fly up the hill back home far quicker, as it is only ~500g heavier than my Felt F5C.

But then I had a spectacular accident on the way to work just before Xmas on the Tricross, in many ways I'm lucky to be around to tell the tale, with plates now in my upper jaw/lower nose and screws in my stronger hand. The Tricross came off far better than me, but still needs work to make it roadworthy, so the Saracen is back on the road... All it needed was the tyre pressures boosted back to ~60psi.

mrfpb

samsbike wrote:

I am confused how are the cdf is a better deal for £70 less as I thought the kaffenback had better brakes and groupset?

Only because I wanted to pay in instalments. Edinburgh Bike Co-op offer interest free credit even on sale items, Planet X charge 9.9% apr. So the difference was about £150. My circumstances, the OP can make his own decision on spreading the cost. I settled for Sora over Tiagra to get a more affordable bike and I'm not sure if the brakes are any different performance wise.

kwmlodozeniec

Many thanks for all the suggestions. It seems PX Kaff is not an option anymore due to the extra 10% charge. Also just found out my company only uses Evans for ride to work scheme so I am limited in that sense.

I'm not sure about the Giant Anyroad, couldn't find one in steel plus I don't like the fancy frame.

Spacialized AWOL is mega, more of a touring machine, but swapping tyres for something narrower and dropping the rack should make it a snappy summer bike ready for anything really. Equipped with BB7s and a triple chainset it seems like the bee's knees.

Just to throw in a spanner in the works just noticed Boardman CX Comp Bike 2014 from halfords, at £599 it seems like a bargain although it's Al frame. What do you guys reckon? It would be outside of the company scheme but I could probably stretch it and get it off the scheme for cash.

mrfpb

mrfpb wrote:

Just to throw in a spanner in the works just noticed Boardman CX Comp Bike 2014 from halfords, at £599 it seems like a bargain although it's Al frame. What do you guys reckon? It would be outside of the company scheme but I could probably stretch it and get it off the scheme for cash.

It all depends on why you wanted steel in the first place! Before I got the CdF I was riding a relatively cheap Alumunium Hybrid (Ridgeback Speed) on and off road, including some very rough CTC routes. The frame set and handlebars are all that's left of the original bike after ten years. It's more important to have the strong wheels and right tyres for off road. The Kaff and any CX bike in your price range will have these, whether its Aluminium or Steel.

MichaelW

the gear range of Alfine 8 is similar to the middle ring of a hybrid bike. I spin out on big hills
they work best with flat bar shifters.
I do an annual oil dip, mainly to make it run better in sub-zero winter conditions.
Mine is trouble free after 6 years but I have a light spinning style and live in flatland.

samsbike

Check that your scheme does not have a finance charge, as that will knock off around 10% in savings.

Personally I would get the halfords cx with a cashback and a BC voucher offer if you can. It will save a little. Also try and negotiate some extras like mudguards with the halfords store. The problem is that this time of the year halfords dont reduce much.

kwmlodozeniec

Many thanks for all the additional input so far.

samsbike, no charge on my scheme as far as I can tell.

The reason I want to go for steel is comfort. I have an Al bike now and to be honest it's not the most comfortable of rides especially past the 10 miles distance. Tried mate's steel bike and it seemed far more comfortable, plus I do like the added strength and potentially longer life. Not keen on carbon and I cannot afford Ti.

Had a little think since my last post and I am considering the AWOL, my local evans can get it in within 5-7 days in large size, which is what I need for my height, and it smack bang on £1k limit of ride to works scheme. Additionally I can get £50 worth of accessories for free and if I can get my hands on an old bike I will get £100 off. I can take the front rack off for short distances and replace the 42 tyres with my 35 marathon pluses from my current bike. The gear range is more than I have now so should be able to cope with anything really. Comes with a rack which will fit my ortliebs nicely too. Bike seems very robust so should last for a long time, and hopefully I will get to test it out this summer if my plan to tour from Brighton to Paris pans out. The spec can be found here: http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... 9#features

Anything I should watch out for or consider changing?

Apologies for all those questions but I am a newbie and I only ended up with my Trek in the first place because it seemed like a safe bet at the time.

The Rookie

Frame comfort is more about design than material, some steel frames are darn near rigid while some alloy quite forgiving, the only real difference is that steel has a higher internal hysteresis so doesn't 'spring back' from a deflection quite as hard which aids comfort.

As for longevity, a looked after alloy frame will last a long time, both mine are 2006 vintage.

samsbike

I quite like the AWOL so I think its a safe bet, but havent ridden one.

Before you bite the bullet test ride a croix de fer back to back, and see what that feels like. I have tried the latter and liked it. Also Epic cycles used to be the cheapest for a CDF.

I dont think there is much difference between them except for groupset and the fact that the AWOL has guards and racks as standard which are not cheap. However, they are worth nothing if the CDF feels better. Try and get at least an hour on each bike.

kwmlodozeniec

Decided to go for the AWOL but Evans have discontinued it for some reason, probably due to supply issues

samsbike

kwmlodozeniec wrote:

Decided to go for the AWOL but Evans have discontinued it for some reason, probably due to supply issues

It could be that the supplier has canned it

DrLex

I'd understood it to be a limited production run when first announced.

kwmlodozeniec

Tried the Alfine and didn't like it, not enough ratios for me. Anyways, missed the boat on cycle scheme so didn't get the bike. Thanks for all the advice though!