Ribble steel Vs alu Winter bike

jordan_217

I'm looking at getting either one of these in the coming weeks, using the C2W scheme. The alu version is tried and tested; lots of positive reviews and a few club mates rate them highly. I'd normally go with something that comes highly recommended but…

… that steel bike looks nice, IMO and I'm gonna take a punt that it will ride a little nicer than the alu one. Trouble is, not many people seem to have bought/reviewed one. Does anyone on here own one? I'd appreciate some feedback.

There's not much in it price wise (105/Deda finishing kit) but I'd like to know more about the steel one before I make my mind up.

Also like the Dolan and Tifosi offerings but have discounted those as the pricing becomes less competitive when you deviate from the basic Shimano or Campag specs.

drlodge

If its the Ribble 525, it should ride much like the old 531 frames. Aluminium gets brittle in the cold so I would favour a steel bike for winter duties.

Steel frame with Veloce gruppo and some 32H hand built wheels with Open Pros or similar...perfect

jordan_217

drlodge wrote:

If its the Ribble 525, it should ride much like the old 531 frames. Aluminium gets brittle in the cold so I would favour a steel bike for winter duties.

Steel frame with Veloce gruppo and some 32H hand built wheels with Open Pros or similar...perfect

Cheers. Yes, it's the 525 which I believe is the lowest grade of Reynolds available (made under license, in Asia(?)). Not too hung up on grade of steel TBH. I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference if it was 853!

Malcolm from The Cycle Clinic has recently built me some nice Kinlin XC-279's on Miche Primato hubs which I really like, nice and stiff and the Miche hubs are apparently easy to service/maintain. Ideal for year round training.

I've already decided on 105 and Deda finishing kit. Though I'm still debating to go for a carbon seat post...

drlodge

I would tend to go steel for no other reason than (a) I like steel (b) few people ride it and I like to buck the trend

darkhairedlord

dont forget the genesis equilibrium

Slo Mo Jones

drlodge wrote:

Aluminium gets brittle in the cold

lol

Aeroplanes travel at 600mph through -60C under much greater forces than at play through a bike, and they work just fine. But no, aluminium is not reliable enough to withstand a chilly bike ride.

zx6man

drlodge wrote:

If its the Ribble 525, it should ride much like the old 531 frames. Aluminium gets brittle in the cold so I would favour a steel bike for winter duties.

D

Thought it was the opposite with aluminium, it gets stronger, some steel grades get brittle.

drlodge

Actually all metals get brittle as they get colder, but bikes like aeroplanes are built strong enough and with the appropriate grade of metal to withstand whatever's thrown at it.

My earlier comment was made on the preconception that aluminium is more brittle than steel and so may not last quite as long, but I dare say there are people riding 25 year old aluminium frames that would prove me wrong.

darkhairedlord

zx6man wrote:

drlodge wrote:

If its the Ribble 525, it should ride much like the old 531 frames. Aluminium gets brittle in the cold so I would favour a steel bike for winter duties.

D

Thought it was the opposite with aluminium, it gets stronger, some steel grades get brittle.

don't confuse brittleness with strength

zx6man

Not doing. Aluminium increases in strength when cold. It doesn't become brittle when cold.

drlodge

zx6man wrote:

Not doing. Aluminium increases in strength when cold. It doesn't become brittle when cold.

Metals become brittle when cold, fact. Put some metal in liquid nitrogen and it will be more brittle than when its warm.

zx6man

Aluminium doesn't become brittle at low temps, or when "cold".
Liquid nitrogen is not just low temp or cold really :-) , either way, no need not to use one in the winter...

drlodge

*Bangs head against wall*

You clearly have no idea what the word brittle means or have any understanding of metallurgy.

darkhairedlord

dr lodge said "aluminium gets brittle" you said "thought it was the opposite with aluminium, it gets stronger"

I must be imagining things....

darkhairedlord

on another note:

has anyone actually tried the ribble 520 steel bike yet?

Slo Mo Jones

drlodge wrote:

zx6man wrote:

Not doing. Aluminium increases in strength when cold. It doesn't become brittle when cold.

Metals become brittle when cold, fact. Put some metal in liquid nitrogen and it will be more brittle than when its warm.

Brilliant.

Some practical advice for the OP then? Aluminium gets brittle in cold, for example when submerged in liquid nitrogen. Therefore you'd advise going for a steel bike instead, just in case the OP wants to dip their bike in liquid nitrogen, rather than cycle when it's a bit nippy outside. Very helpful.

Equally, you could have said that steel melts in high temperatures, for example when it is placed into a furnace. Therefore you would advise going with titanium for its higher melting point, just in case the OP wants to place his bike into a furnace that is hotter than the melting point of steel alloys typically used in bike manufacture, but below the melting point of titanium.

zx6man

darkhairedlord wrote:

dr lodge said "aluminium gets brittle" you said "thought it was the opposite with aluminium, it gets stronger"

I must be imagining things....

I did :-) and maybe shouldn't have used the word opposite.

As for not having understanding of Metallurgy, I defer to texts as they know more than me :-)

Strength

Aluminium alloys commonly have tensile strengths of between 70 and 700 MPa. The range for alloys used in extrusion is 150 – 300 MPa. Unlike most steel grades, aluminium does not become brittle at low temperatures. Instead, its strength increases. At high temperatures, aluminium’s strength decreases. At temperatures continuously above 100°C, strength is affected to the extent that the weakening must be taken into account.


Nothing like a good BR debate :-)

drlodge

Slo Mo Jones wrote:

drlodge wrote:

zx6man wrote:

Not doing. Aluminium increases in strength when cold. It doesn't become brittle when cold.

Metals become brittle when cold, fact. Put some metal in liquid nitrogen and it will be more brittle than when its warm.

Brilliant.

Some practical advice for the OP then? Aluminium gets brittle in cold, for example when submerged in liquid nitrogen. Therefore you'd advise going for a steel bike instead, just in case the OP wants to dip their bike in liquid nitrogen, rather than cycle when it's a bit nippy outside. Very helpful.

Equally, you could have said that steel melts in high temperatures, for example when it is placed into a furnace. Therefore you would advise going with titanium for its higher melting point, just in case the OP wants to place his bike into a furnace that is hotter than the melting point of steel alloys typically used in bike manufacture, but below the melting point of titanium.

My advice was sound, on the basis that aluminium is more suscpetible to becoming brittle when compared to steel. I never suggested he might want to dip it in liquid nitrogen, that was an example to prove a point as you rightly point out.

In the end, I expect neither a steel nor a modern alminium frame will fail due to fatigue so its not a factor that will sway the OP's decision. Steel is the more ductile material, aluminium is less ductile and hence more brittle, that is all.

darkhairedlord

zx6man wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

dr lodge said "aluminium gets brittle" you said "thought it was the opposite with aluminium, it gets stronger"

I must be imagining things....

I did :-) and maybe shouldn't have used the word opposite.

As for not having understanding of Metallurgy, I defer to texts as they know more than me :-)

Strength

Aluminium alloys commonly have tensile strengths of between 70 and 700 MPa. The range for alloys used in extrusion is 150 – 300 MPa. Unlike most steel grades, aluminium does not become brittle at low temperatures. Instead, its strength increases. At high temperatures, aluminium’s strength decreases. At temperatures continuously above 100°C, strength is affected to the extent that the weakening must be taken into account.


Nothing like a good BR debate :-)

That was probably rewritten by someone in the marketing department because they didn't understand the technical data they were given by the metallurgist. Hence the confusion between strength and brittleness.

darkhairedlord

drlodge wrote:

Slo Mo Jones wrote:

drlodge wrote:

zx6man wrote:

Not doing. Aluminium increases in strength when cold. It doesn't become brittle when cold.

Metals become brittle when cold, fact. Put some metal in liquid nitrogen and it will be more brittle than when its warm.

Brilliant.

Some practical advice for the OP then? Aluminium gets brittle in cold, for example when submerged in liquid nitrogen. Therefore you'd advise going for a steel bike instead, just in case the OP wants to dip their bike in liquid nitrogen, rather than cycle when it's a bit nippy outside. Very helpful.

Equally, you could have said that steel melts in high temperatures, for example when it is placed into a furnace. Therefore you would advise going with titanium for its higher melting point, just in case the OP wants to place his bike into a furnace that is hotter than the melting point of steel alloys typically used in bike manufacture, but below the melting point of titanium.

My advice was sound, on the basis that aluminium is more suscpetible to becoming brittle when compared to steel. I never suggested he might want to dip it in liquid nitrogen, that was an example to prove a point as you rightly point out.

In the end, I expect neither a steel nor a modern alminium frame will fail due to fatigue so its not a factor that will sway the OP's decision. Steel is the more ductile material, aluminium is less ductile and hence more brittle, that is all.

and steel has a fatigue strength but aluminium does not

drlodge

zx6man wrote:

aluminium does not become brittle at low temperatures. Instead, its strength increases.

This is a rubbish statement, since it implies brittleness and strength are the same thing, which they are not, they are two very differet properties. I see you pasted from http://www.aluminiumdesign.net/why-alum ... aluminium/ brittleness has nothing to do with strength.

To give an example: Concrete is brittle, vey strong in compression, and weak in tension.

Plasticine is very ductile, hence not brittle at all, but very weak.

jordan_217

I think I may just go for the steel one. Why?:

1. I own both ti and alu bikes already, steel will give me a full house.
2. It looks nicer than the alu one.
3. It's red, which is scientifically proven, in stringent wind tunnel testing, to be the fastest colour known to man.

In the absence of any real-world feedback from current owners, the 3 points above seem like sound justification :-)

drlodge

jordan_217 wrote:

I think I may just go for the steel one. Why?:

1. I own both ti and alu bikes already, steel will give me a full house.
2. It looks nicer than the alu one.
3. It's red, which is scientifically proven, in stringent wind tunnel testing, to be the fastest colour known to man.

In the absence of any real-world feedback from current owners, the 3 points above seem like sound justification :-)

Its as good a reason as any, plus steel is the less brittle of the two Of course carbon fibre is really brittle, but arguably the strongest of all :shock:

Slo Mo Jones

On account of steel being magnetic, I would go for the alu one. This is in case, while out on your cycle, you encounter an evildoer by the roadside who, using a giant magnet like the ones you get in scrap yards, is plucking cyclists from the road and depositing them in a vat of very hot treacle.

And treacle, as we know, can play havoc with your bearings. That is why I dismantle the bearings, clean using a good detreacler from a branded manufacturer, regrease and reinstall every time I so much as look at my bike. It's just basic bike maintenance and if you don't do it, you carbon seatpost will fail and I don't want that while I'm cruising up a hill at 35mph...

drlodge

Ah but not all steels are magnetic!

zx6man

drlodge wrote:

jordan_217 wrote:

I think I may just go for the steel one. Why?:

1. I own both ti and alu bikes already, steel will give me a full house.
2. It looks nicer than the alu one.
3. It's red, which is scientifically proven, in stringent wind tunnel testing, to be the fastest colour known to man.

In the absence of any real-world feedback from current owners, the 3 points above seem like sound justification :-)

Its as good a reason as any, plus steel is the less brittle of the two Of course carbon fibre is really brittle, but arguably the strongest of all :shock:

Carbon melts in the rain though, another thing to watch out for

drlodge

I don't own a carbon bike, or for that matter an aluminium one ;-) I hate brittleness :roll:

Hang on, I do own an aluminium bike now, its a Halfords CX BSO. Better melt it down for scrap.

zx6man

I had a steel peugeot comp 525 from the 80's. Was miles better than the current ali one I have, just too much of a race body position.

darkhairedlord

cripes, two pages of arguing about brittleness and not one post about the ribble 525?
Must be like riding a plough

menthel

Neither of the Ribble bikes seem to take tyres bigger than 23s. I would get a genesis equillbrium instead and have nice, comfy tyres.

drlodge

I would certainly look for a frame that takes 25c tyres AND full mudguards, SKS chromoplastics preferably not those add on thin plastic pretend guard objects.