Hit by a car. Your opinion

explosivetom

I've been cycling on the road for about 4 months now and apart from a time a girl decided to move into the cycle lane about 5 feet in front of me, today was the first time I've had any kind of accident. Today i was cycling along a road in the centre of manchester which is small going around 10-15 mph an a hour, with a car infront of me also going ten to fifteen miles an hour that had just overtaken me. Basically the accident happened when the car went to turn left into a minor road. I only saw a signal about two seconds before the driver turned into the corner, which lead me to hit the side of the car and come flying off my bike. I managed not to hit my head though and get away with a few scraps. I swear that the indicator only went only a few feet before the corner not giving me time to react, but i suppose my question is how much am i at fault at this ? is there any tips for avoiding this kind of accident and is it worth reporting it to the police, as afterwards the passenger got out the car told me that she had her signal on and so i said it was my fault and left it at that. I did this because i start my uni exams tomorrow and i didn't want to hang around for ages.
Thank you very much for any replies
Edit - sorry forgot to mention, i saw the car parked up around the corner afterwards so i wrote down the license plater

brianandrews

Sounds like their fault to me. If they just overtook you they should have known you were there. Since you went into the side rather than the back that would indicate they turned across you..?

explosivetom

Yeah i feel I was turned into as well. I was just unsure as the passenger talked to me he was quite arrogant and it made me feel it was my fault that I missed the indicator and failed to slow down

davis

It sounds like you've been a victim of the classic "left hook" (called a "right-hook" in the States for obvious reasons).

In general, if a car overtakes then turns across you, it's entirely, completely their fault. I think that's what you're describing, however it's a little unclear exactly how much time you had.

As for avoiding it, then you're better off riding in primary position (much more to the middle of the road; see the book Cyclecraft) in situations like you describe. That's probably the best advice as it forces cars to actually consider the overtake as a "real" overtake, rather than "just get past a cyclist" mentality. You're also more visible. In fact, just read that book.

The other protection is simply getting used to traffic. I don't know if you drive or how much you cycle, but you develop a 6th sense (the "spidey sense") of when someone's going to do something stupid. Obviously this can't protect you from the truly incompetent or malicious but it's amazing how you can infer someone's intentions from just a few seconds of being near them.

drlodge

It was the car's fault. Simple, end of. Its no different to if the car had pulled out of a junction causing another car to go into the back of them.

The fact they were indicating makes no difference really.

explosivetom

Thanks,
I will pick up that book. i've only just past my driving test so it might be worth checking over the highway code again as well to help me anticipate drivers decisions.

davis

explosivetom wrote:

Thanks,
I will pick up that book. i've only just past my driving test so it might be worth checking over the highway code again as well to help me anticipate drivers decisions.

Honestly, there's not much in the highway code about "reading" other people. I don't know if it can be taught; the only sensible lesson I ever heard about "reading" other drivers was my mum saying "don't look at people's indicators on roundabouts; look at where their front wheels are pointing!".
I think it's just experience, sadly.

slowbike

drlodge wrote:

It was the car's fault. Simple, end of. Its no different to if the car had pulled out of a junction causing another car to go into the back of them.

The fact they were indicating makes no difference really.

It depends how long "just" is ... if the car had "just" overtaken and within a matter of seconds made the left turn then yes I'd agree with you. However, if the car had "just" overtaken and a minute later made the turn then I'd disagree.
More likely to be the former though.

slowbike

explosivetom wrote:

Thanks,
I will pick up that book. i've only just past my driving test so it might be worth checking over the highway code again as well to help me anticipate drivers decisions.

Ah - that's easy - just assume everyone else on the road is a blithering idiot ...

explosivetom

Slowbike wrote:

drlodge wrote:

It was the car's fault. Simple, end of. Its no different to if the car had pulled out of a junction causing another car to go into the back of them.

The fact they were indicating makes no difference really.

It depends how long "just" is ... if the car had "just" overtaken and within a matter of seconds made the left turn then yes I'd agree with you. However, if the car had "just" overtaken and a minute later made the turn then I'd disagree.
More likely to be the former though.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.47260 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Don't know if this would help, but I'd come across oxford road on to hulme street. I was infront of two cars one that over took prior and the one i was in the accident in. The left turning was Lower ormand street

steve6690

If he's come past you at 10-15 mph and then immediately hit the brakes and turned left then it's his fault. If he'd been past you for a few seconds and suddenly turned left without signalling then it's yours, as you'd have either been too close or you were undertaking as he slowed for the turn. From how you describe it though I would say the car driver is most likely to have been at fault.

awavey

steve6690 wrote:

If he's come past you at 10-15 mph and then immediately hit the brakes and turned left then it's his fault. If he'd been past you for a few seconds and suddenly turned left without signalling then it's yours, as you'd have either been too close or you were undertaking as he slowed for the turn

as far as Im aware theres no time limit on the length of time the car has to be ahead, before it then becomes your fault if they drive into you, the car/lorry driver is supposed to check their left side is clear before making the turn precisely because there could be a cyclist/motorbike hidden (or not so hidden if they just dont bother looking) on their left. doubly so in slow moving traffic, triply so if theyve just overtaken you which they arent meant to be doing anyway if they intended to turn

steve6690

How can it be a car drivers fault if they've completed the overtake ? The cyclist would then be behind the car. The only way to get side swiped by the car would be to undertake. If a car overtakes you and you then undertake it as it is clearly slowing down on the approach to a left turn, whether it's indicating or not, you're asking for trouble. Most drivers do not check over their left shoulder when making a left turn and to rely on that is lunacy. Also, it wouldn't be the car drivers fault if you're undertaking. It IS their fault if they overtake at the last second and then immediately turn left which is what seems to have happened.

supersonic

Not enough info really, but I am swaying to the above opinion.

patrickf

Agree with the more recent posters. We don't have enough information.

Also it's my understanding that any passenger in a vehicle cannot be used as witnesses as they are likely to be biased. That's what I've been told by an insurance company in a car-vs-car incident in the past.

tootsie323

explosivetom wrote:

... I only saw a signal about two seconds before the driver turned into the corner, which lead me to hit the side of the car and come flying off my bike... I swear that the indicator only went only a few feet before the corner not giving me time to react...

Not sure which of the above is the more accurate. Two seconds in my eyes gives one time to react. A few feet, at 15mph, probably does not.
Personally, I'd be hanging back a little from the car on the basis that the worst might happen, and I'd be on the brakes the moment I saw the indicator.
I'm not apportioning blame here but merely pointing out precautionary (defensive) action that one may take to avoid the accident in the first place. Hope you (and the bike!) are fine and you can take positives from the experience for future riding.

The Rookie

patrickf wrote:

Also it's my understanding that any passenger in a vehicle cannot be used as witnesses as they are likely to be biased. That's what I've been told by an insurance company in a car-vs-car incident in the past.

And very wrong, the passenger can of course be a witness (they are), the weight the court may give to their testimony will be reduced if they consider them to not be independant.

My Wife was an importnat witness when I was sued by a driver who decided to overtake whilst I was turning right.


From the OP's description its impossible to say who was at fault, if the car driver overtook and went straight into a left turn, it was their fault, but it doens't read like that, if they were in front and the rider went into the back of the car due to riding too close it was the riders fault, in the middle is a grey area.

steve6690

As above. Insurance companies might ignore passengers' evidence when weighing up who's to blame, but the courts and police do not.

explosivetom

Hi again
Thanks for all the further advice, I will try and take it on board and try to be more aware of hazards on the roads. I've woken up today feeling a bit sore but ok, i'll put it down to experience and try improve my awareness on the road

slowbike

explosivetom wrote:

i'll put it down to experience and try improve my awareness on the road

Good - and I hope the driver will do the same.

patrickf

The Rookie wrote:

patrickf wrote:

Also it's my understanding that any passenger in a vehicle cannot be used as witnesses as they are likely to be biased. That's what I've been told by an insurance company in a car-vs-car incident in the past.

And very wrong, the passenger can of course be a witness (they are), the weight the court may give to their testimony will be reduced if they consider them to not be independant.

My Wife was an importnat witness when I was sued by a driver who decided to overtake whilst I was turning right.


From the OP's description its impossible to say who was at fault, if the car driver overtook and went straight into a left turn, it was their fault, but it doens't read like that, if they were in front and the rider went into the back of the car due to riding too close it was the riders fault, in the middle is a grey area.

Interesting. Makes sense from a prosecution perspective I suppose as a witness would be under oath.

damocles10

Personally I would report it. Perhaps CCTV would be able to pick it up if you can give them a location and time.

PBo

As others have said, if he pulled in front and immediately turned, he left hooked you, if he had - I can't think of a better phrase - "established his position" in front of you - then turned, I would say it was your fault for being too close, but it's not clear cut.

If someone overtakes and pulls in too close in front of you, at what point does it become your responsibility to reduce your speed to be able to stop in time? Immediately? After a few seconds? If I remember correctly, when I took my driving test, you failed if your actions caused someone else to deviate/alter their speed, so such a sloppy overtake would mean the car is at fault.....