New Cane Creek DB inline

lawman

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-story- ... shock.html

Finally a light(ish) XC shock with fully adjustable damping! How the hell they've managed to package it all I don't know, but it should be just the ticket for a lot of shorter travel trail bikes!

poah

its not a XC shock - from the blurb its made for bikes that can't take the DBair.

rockmonkeysc

It's for harder hitting mid travel bikes, could be just the job for my Mega TR.

lawman

POAH wrote:

its not a XC shock - from the blurb its made for bikes that can't take the DBair.

It comes in smaller, more XC sizes, and less DH sizes than the standard DB, would certainly seemed to be aimed more twards the XC/Am end of the spectrum than the normal DB. But lets not turn this in to an argument about what xc is!

lawman

RockmonkeySC wrote:

It's for harder hitting mid travel bikes, could be just the job for my Mega TR.

This.

Dick Scruttock

Interesting, I might buy one for my Solo.

lawman

Rick Draper wrote:

Interesting, I might buy one for my Solo.

You sir, have far, far too much money for your own good!

benpinnick

Its pretty cool.... I should have one here in a few days to test I saw the dev models last year and had a play, if the production ones are as good then it will be mint.

lawman

benpinnick wrote:

Its pretty cool.... I should have one here in a few days to test I saw the dev models last year and had a play, if the production ones are as good then it will be mint.

Nice! There are so many trail bikes that could benefit from it, bikes the Mega TR, Solo etc, built for a proper thrashing but still want to be light enough to keep up with the XC crowd.

Dick Scruttock

lawman wrote:

Rick Draper wrote:

Interesting, I might buy one for my Solo.

You sir, have far, far too much money for your own good!

I don't actually have a Solo yet but will be ordering one shortly The Bronson is going and a Nomad and a Solo are replacing it 8) .

I might just get one with the standard shock then and buy one of these, interesting.

poah

RockmonkeySC wrote:

It's for harder hitting mid travel bikes, could be just the job for my Mega TR.

does the DBair not fit?

rockmonkeysc

From what I understand it's not just about the external shape, it's also more progressive to work better with short travel rear suspension.
If it was just about being more compact then they may as well use it as a replacement for shorter stroke sizes of the DBair.

poah

can't wait to read all the internet bull about the shock

rockmonkeysc

Cane Creek haven't made a bad shock yet. My CCDB is noticeably better than the Fox DHX5 I had before. It's just so much easier to tune and find the perfect set up. Not tried the new Marzocchi coil yet but that could beat the CCDB (certainly a lot lighter) and they have an air version out soon.

Dick Scruttock

More information:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/05/19/new ... verywhere/

rockmonkeysc

It's interesting how much technical information Cane Creek are prepared to give, especially before it's on the market.
I have worked for several large manufacturing companies and they have all been very secretive about this level of detail until the product is on the market (when anyone can buy it and strip it). They were paranoid about competitors taking features and having something better soon after the products release.

bluechair84

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Cane Creek haven't made a bad shock yet. My CCDB is noticeably better than the Fox DHX5 I had before. It's just so much easier to tune and find the perfect set up.

You may have some interesting insight for me - I'm running a DHX5 on the Ellsworth and the square edge performance is balls, I'm trying to figure out if this is more likely an issue with the Suspension design, or if it can be dialled out with a better shock. Any thoughts?

Northwind

It is horrible looking though... Honestly think a lot of the appeal of the CCDB for most people is in looks and wow factor, which this has zero of. (I do rate my ccdb coil but it's not that much better than the DHX it replaced, even if you know how to twiddle the knobs). A PUSH'd RP23 just doesn't have the swag

rockmonkeysc

The appeal of the CCDB is that it's very easy to set up considering the level of adjustability, it requires very little maintenance and it's quite progressive so you can run it quite soft and with a fast rebound.
I don't really care what the shock looks like.

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I don't really care what the shock looks like.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks...

poah

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Cane Creek haven't made a bad shock yet. My CCDB is noticeably better than the Fox DHX5 I had before. It's just so much easier to tune and find the perfect set up. Not tried the new Marzocchi coil yet but that could beat the CCDB (certainly a lot lighter) and they have an air version out soon.

that's not what I mean - the DBair CS, the RS pike are all hyped up way beyond what they actually are.

rockmonkeysc

That's because the marketing people have done their job well.

poah

RockmonkeySC wrote:

That's because the marketing people have done their job well.

I blame american's and pinkbike

benpinnick

POAH wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Cane Creek haven't made a bad shock yet. My CCDB is noticeably better than the Fox DHX5 I had before. It's just so much easier to tune and find the perfect set up. Not tried the new Marzocchi coil yet but that could beat the CCDB (certainly a lot lighter) and they have an air version out soon.

that's not what I mean - the DBair CS, the RS pike are all hyped up way beyond what they actually are.

People can get a bit too excited, but the DBAir CS is the definitely the best all round shock out there IMHO, and the Pike is a class above pretty much everything else in at least one factor and on par with all the others (weight/plushness/adjustment/damping quality) - its got it all and costs less than most of the inferior competition. Whats not to like?

Yes they get hyped, but deservedly so I say.

Northwind

The other thing though is that it depends on the frame as much as the shock. I've got a CCDB coil in a 224 and there, it makes total sense, to be blunt the simple frame design can benefit all the shock you can throw at it. But other frames have a lot more cleverness in the frame which takes away some of the opportunity for the shock to shine. I wouldn't have fitted a CCDB to my Herb, frinstance- it might improve it a little but it already works superbly, there's less scope for improvement.

With trailbikes and air shocks there's a lot of "design the bike to the shock" going on- so if the Inline delivers really different behaviour (rather than just more control over damping) then you could get weird side effects from that. Take away the shortfalls of a shock and you might just find that the frame was using them.

benpinnick

I don't think thats true about designing bikes to a shock... I am sure a few are where its a specialist shock thats being used, but having just designed a bike and gone through this process, you design a bike around its shock curve, kinematics and anti-squat - all of which are features of the frame, not the shock. You then tune the damping on the shocks to maximise the positive effects (for example increasing end stroke progression), minimise negative effects (pedal bob etc.), and attempt in all that to ensure that the shock doesn't fundamentally change the way the bike works from what you designed.

The reason the CCDBA CS is such a good shock is not because of the tuneability (That makes it a great upgrade shock mind), or its super consistent control (which is also great) its mainly that the CS is active on the whole stroke (unlike pro-pedal for example) and uses totally different circuits designed to behave very differently to the main ones. This produces a completely different shock when you flick the switch, allowing far greater control of the tunes for pedalling and open. Ultimately you want the user to have to do the absolute minimum you can to the shock, but you cannot avoid the fact that pedalling uphill and going down are two different types of riding, and so benefit from two different damping profiles.

Angus Young

benpinnick wrote:

but having just designed a bike and gone through this process

Say more.

Northwind

benpinnick wrote:

I don't think thats true about designing bikes to a shock... I am sure a few are where its a specialist shock thats being used, but having just designed a bike and gone through this process, you design a bike around its shock curve, kinematics and anti-squat - all of which are features of the frame, not the shock. You then tune the damping on the shocks to maximise the positive effects (for example increasing end stroke progression), minimise negative effects (pedal bob etc.), and attempt in all that to ensure that the shock doesn't fundamentally change the way the bike works from what you designed.

Yup, but that final point is exactly what I'm talking about- your bike design has to be basically compatible with the character of the shock. Fitting something significantly different can spin that out completely- and all the mainstream options perform in basically similiar ways so even if not designed specifically for an RP23 or a Monarch, whichever you put in it will be similiar. So frinstance, a mate of mine put a CCDB Air (old one) in a Five, he thought it'd just be an "upgrade" but it turned out to change the feel of the bike so much that he didn't like it.

Hmm, ok, not the best example this... My Cotic was designed quite a long time ago, for older style air shocks. Fitting a more modern, less progressive shock changes the character of the bike a lot. As it happens I like it, with the right compression tune, the midrange of the bike is quite coiley and gives bags of traction. But quite a lot of people have done the same and hated it, the bike's got no pop or jump to it, it's a groundhugger. So Ok, for me it turned out well but fitting a shock with significantly different character did change the bike.

benpinnick

Northwind wrote:

Yup, but that final point is exactly what I'm talking about- your bike design has to be basically compatible with the character of the shock. Fitting something significantly different can spin that out completely- and all the mainstream options perform in basically similiar ways so even if not designed specifically for an RP23 or a Monarch, whichever you put in it will be similiar. So frinstance, a mate of mine put a CCDB Air (old one) in a Five, he thought it'd just be an "upgrade" but it turned out to change the feel of the bike so much that he didn't like it.

This is indeed true, most shocks make a terrible upgrade unless custom tuned. For example, there are half a dozen or so things you can mess with on a Monarch shock (at the factory). Each of those has between 3-10 variables. That means you have 10,000s of individual combinations you can make. The chances of an AM shock being the right fit for your bike's riding style is pretty much zero. It might be close, but it won't be right. The CC on the other hand does let you mess with the 5 most important of those without custom valving - air volume, low and high speed compression and rebound. The range of modification is sufficiently broad that the user can, if they are patient, find that balance just right. We use CCDBairs for testing as we can play with the tune to find that sweet spot. Last time I did it I guessed it at first, it sucked. It took me a whole day at BPW shuttling up and down, tweaking the shock a few clicks at a time until it was pretty much perfect. Its definitely the most effective way of getting a shock upgrade without masses of custom tuning in my opinion.

Dick Scruttock

SC were also spotted using a DBA to develop the new Nomad. I'd imagine its become the mainstay of most bike companies for development purposes.