Etape du Dales - food shortages

andy_from_embsay

Did EdD today. Didn't start terribly late (8:35, when you could start up until 9:30). Arrived at the first stop at Hawes before 10 (it closes at 11) - no food. That's ok, it's only 22 miles in - there's another in 25 miles, which is about as far as the first feed on the Fred.

Got to Tan Hill 90 minutes before it shuts to be offered a choice of a Snickers or a Mars Bar. Lots of people tucking into sandwiches. "Where's the sarnies?". "Run out"

Not good enough, EdD - and yes, I was carrying stuff, so I was ok - but Sportives charge you for three/four things - a well-planned route with signage/marshals (tick - brilliant), timing and some results (assume this is ok) and food/drink so you don't need to stop at cafes (massive, massive fail) - and number four is sometimes a donation to a charity - tick.

And whilst I'm on about it - to those people (several of whom I know rode the EdD today) who ride events like this on the day without entering, I have a problem with that. Yes, they're public roads that you can ride on any time (so why don't you then?) and you may not have eaten any food - you may even have donated a few quid to the nominated charity (how much, exactly, or is that just what you say when people ask you?) - but two things - firstly, you "not eating any food" is probably three quid of the entry fee (rather less today - I ate two tiny tuna butties - see above) and secondly you've ridden the event taking advantage of the signage (which someone's given up their free time to stick up), the marshals (ditto) and (in the case of several people today) the bloody free parking. 3,000 people didn't get into the Fred - if they all turned up and said "it's ok - I won't eat the food" then how long d'you think the event would be allowed to carry on for?

And relax...

maddog 2

+1

I rode it too. Well run but the lack of food was a very big mistake.

As you say, I had enough food on me not to get into trouble but we pretty much had to stop at a cafe in Kirkby Stephen to get some proper food. You can't eat bars and gels for 9 hours. Poor show.

markhewitt1978

I rode the sportive in Langholm instead, plenty food! Although for the first two feed stops we were the first visitors to you would hope so!

Agree with the OP that the reason sportives are worth paying for is only partially for the signposted route, but that you don't have to carry food and water with you because there is plenty supplied.

GJTheunisse

I set off at 8.02 with No water at the 1st feed (I set off at 8.02) when I got there. It was a long, dry haul to the second feed...

Steve GT

I got to the 1st stop in Hawes earlier than you Andy and they only had a few banana left. Pretty poor show.
The water at Tan hill had a funny taste as well.

maddog 2

+1 the dodgy water at Tan Hill

PeteinSQ

I'm amazed they ran out of sandwiches given the huge quantities they had when I went through. I did set off at 6:50, but they should have planned to have enough for people coming through later.

Lack of food wasn't my problem; it was the number of hills...

durhamwasp

Sounds appalling, but goes along with what I have read about some of their other rides. How on earth can a sportive that advertises feed stations not have food or water for most riders?!

They appear to be an absolute rip off to me, and I certainly wont be paying £40 (or £63 for a 60 mile Etape Pennines). Also surprised Tan Hill didn't charge you for the water...

Looks a good route, on roads I cycle a lot.

andy_from_embsay

It's not the same organisers as Etape Pennines etc - this is a long standing charity ride in aid of the Dave Rayner fund - I've never heard of any issues with supplies before (but then I've usually started early) - and £40 is ok as a big chunk of it's for the charity.

I do really, really hope that none of the missing food went into the people who were riding it without paying, though!

adr82

This is a bit of a stupid thread. If you're riding a sportive, even a longer one, you shouldn't be relying exclusively on feed stations to keep you going. You should have your own food and especially water. Don't know why it's so surprising the feed stations might be running short by the time you get there, that's exactly why you take your own stuff. Complaining because they don't happen to have sandwiches (wtf) or because you didn't bother to take any water with you from the start is ridiculous.

Out of interest I went and checked the "rider briefing" for the Etape du Dales and you can't say they didn't make things very clear for you:

REFRESHMENTS
We supply checkpoints with a variety of food products and water will be available, we cannot guarantee quantity or variety as this depends on your fellow participants! You are responsible for ensuring you have sufficient nutrition to sustain you on the ride.

markhewitt1978

Then why have feed stations at all? Might as well just have a ride with nothing. In fact why not just have no sportive at all? Sorry but your post is the stupid one. If you enter a sportive with feed stations you should realistically expect them to have food & drink.

drlodge

I agree that people should carry food and water with them - to not do so is a bit foolish. BUT, participants pay not an insignificant amount of money for a sportive and part of the fee goes towards food/drink. The organisers should ensure there is sufficient food/drink for the number of people riding the event. Its not unreasonable for people to expect some food/drink at each staton - may be not everything - but there should be some food and definately water as a minimum.

To stop non-payers eating, I have no issue on being asked for some proof of entry, or being limited on the amount I can take, thereby essuring there is some left for those who left late or are slower.

rickwiggans

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Then why have feed stations at all? Might as well just have a ride with nothing. In fact why not just have no sportive at all? Sorry but your post is the stupid one. If you enter a sportive with feed stations you should realistically expect them to have food & drink.

+1

And by way of a contrast (and this is meant as nothing more than a contrast, not a dig at Sportives - I ride them as well),
the 134 mile Fleet Moss Audax is run on the same day, covers some of the same ground, has masses of food at the start and at the finish, provides route cards and gpx mapping, and costs £5.50. OK, you buy your own beans on toast if required, but hey, that's life!

adr82

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Then why have feed stations at all? Might as well just have a ride with nothing. In fact why not just have no sportive at all? Sorry but your post is the stupid one. If you enter a sportive with feed stations you should realistically expect them to have food & drink.

How is my post stupid when it says the same thing as the official ride notes? It literally could not be any clearer. And they did have food and drink from the sound of it, the problem was that it wasn't of a high enough standard or something to satisfy some people. If you're going to insist on being fussy about it, take your own stuff. Not getting any sympathy from me.

As for providing enough for everyone, that's hardly as easy as it sounds because not everyone is going to eat the same amount (again as mentioned in the ride notes!). Some people won't even stop, some people will grab a quick snack and keep going, some people will stop for 10 or 15 minutes and tuck into loads of stuff. You can't expect them to provide enough food for every rider to gorge themselves at every feed station to cover the "everyone is hungry" scenario, because that would just result in even higher entry fees and a sh*tload of wasted food.

slowbike

adr82 wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Then why have feed stations at all? Might as well just have a ride with nothing. In fact why not just have no sportive at all? Sorry but your post is the stupid one. If you enter a sportive with feed stations you should realistically expect them to have food & drink.

How is my post stupid when it says the same thing as the official ride notes? It literally could not be any clearer. And they did have food and drink from the sound of it, the problem was that it wasn't of a high enough standard or something to satisfy some people. If you're going to insist on being fussy about it, take your own stuff. Not getting any sympathy from me.

As for providing enough for everyone, that's hardly as easy as it sounds because not everyone is going to eat the same amount (again as mentioned in the ride notes!). Some people won't even stop, some people will grab a quick snack and keep going, some people will stop for 10 or 15 minutes and tuck into loads of stuff. You can't expect them to provide enough food for every rider to gorge themselves at every feed station to cover the "everyone is hungry" scenario, because that would just result in even higher entry fees and a sh*tload of wasted food.

I've ridden quite a few sportives - sometimes I stop at the feed stations, othertimes I zip by ... I always ensure I carry maximum drink I need or maximum I can carry - whichever the least - but I would be pretty pissed off if I turned up at a feed station to find there was no water available. I also carry my own food (usually too much) - but feed stations are there to feed the riders, it's not that difficult to ensure there is food available. Some tail-end charlies may find that the choice isn't there, but there should be something for them.
No food = bad organisation and as a sportive is an organised ride then that is what the rider is paying for. OK, it's not the end of the world and nobody in this country is going to starve because the feed station had no food or water - but why pay for a sportive if you're going to have to arrange all your own food & drink too?!

adr82

Slowbike wrote:

I also carry my own food (usually too much) - but feed stations are there to feed the riders, it's not that difficult to ensure there is food available. Some tail-end charlies may find that the choice isn't there, but there should be something for them.

There was:

andy_from_embsay wrote:

Got to Tan Hill 90 minutes before it shuts to be offered a choice of a Snickers or a Mars Bar. Lots of people tucking into sandwiches. "Where's the sardines?". "Run out"

Oh the humanity!

Slowbike wrote:

No food = bad organisation and as a sportive is an organised ride then that is what the rider is paying for. OK, it's not the end of the world and nobody in this country is going to starve because the feed station had no food or water - but why pay for a sportive if you're going to have to arrange all your own food & drink too?!

Would love to see you organise a sportive where nobody had any cause to complain about the food/drink provisions. As this thread demonstrates, people will always complain. If you really want to make regular food stops such a core feature of these events, the obvious thing to do would be to remove any costs associated with them from the regular entry fee and then ask you to pay for an actual "meal ticket" on top of the entry fee that would a) guarantee you food/drink at every feed stop on presentation of the ticket and b) allow the organisers to accurately estimate the amount of food they needed.

Or you know, people could just accept that things aren't going to be perfect and live with it...

DeVlaeminck

adr82 wrote:

This is a bit of a stupid thread. If you're riding a sportive, even a longer one, you shouldn't be relying exclusively on feed stations to keep you going. You should have your own food and especially water.

Hmm, I think I'd expect food and water to be provided sufficient for the ride. On a hot day especially I don't see how you can carry enough water to see you through a 7 or 8 hour ride - and if you are expecting feed stations you might just carry a litre thinking you'll top up after 40 miles or whatever.

Now I know you pointed out that this sportive did have some food and water - so perhaps the situation is not as terrible as all that - but I'd probably expect something a little less chocolatey that I could stick in a pocket and eat on the go at least.

In other words the OP has cause for complaint but for me at least it wouldn't really impact on my enjoyment of the day.

slowbike

adr82 wrote:

No food = bad organisation and as a sportive is an organised ride then that is what the rider is paying for. OK, it's not the end of the world and nobody in this country is going to starve because the feed station had no food or water - but why pay for a sportive if you're going to have to arrange all your own food & drink too?!

Would love to see you organise a sportive where nobody had any cause to complain about the food/drink provisions. As this thread demonstrates, people will always complain. [/quote]
For many years I was involved in the organisation of post race tea. We never had any complaints or shortages - we didn't even have the luxury of pre-booked participants so never knew just how many people would turn up. Unlike some other post race teas we didn't even restrict the participants in quantity allowed (although some of the younger racers did get told to eat what they had on their plate then come back for more later).

Honestly - catering isn't that difficult.

andy_from_embsay

adr82 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

I also carry my own food (usually too much) - but feed stations are there to feed the riders, it's not that difficult to ensure there is food available. Some tail-end charlies may find that the choice isn't there, but there should be something for them.

There was:

andy_from_embsay wrote:

Got to Tan Hill 90 minutes before it shuts to be offered a choice of a Snickers or a Mars Bar. Lots of people tucking into sandwiches. "Where's the sardines?". "Run out"

Oh the humanity!

"Sardines" is an auto-correct for "sarnies" - I'm not sure which bit of "I took my own stuff" you didn't understand - but "I took my own stuff" - but for a ride that has always been one of the better ones for feed stops to have the first two run out of stuff with probably a third of the field still to arrive is poor planning or organisation.

andy_from_embsay

adr82 wrote:

As for providing enough for everyone, that's hardly as easy as it sounds because not everyone is going to eat the same amount (again as mentioned in the ride notes!). Some people won't even stop, some people will grab a quick snack and keep going, some people will stop for 10 or 15 minutes and tuck into loads of stuff. You can't expect them to provide enough food for every rider to gorge themselves at every feed station to cover the "everyone is hungry" scenario, because that would just result in even higher entry fees and a sh*tload of wasted food.

They either didn't have anywhere near enough stuff at Tan Hill - if we'd been at the back, or really late starters then fair enough - but there was probably 3-400 people behind us.

The rider notes are indeed clear that they don't guarantee what'll be there - but I can't believe they thought "Hmmm - 1,000 people entered, a couple of hundred won't turn up that means about 800 riders - I know - let's just make 500 sarnies to see if they read the notes properly" - so they've cocked up somewhere, either by not keeping an eye on what people were taking or by not making enough.

Every time there's an issue like this some smartarse like you comes along and starts pontificating about "people have to be responsible for themselves" - read the first post - I (and mad dog, and everyone I spoke to) did carry our own stuff - but for £40 you'd expect the majority of the field to be able to get something to eat before 70 miles. As others have said, if they're only going to cater for half the field then why not just say "no food"? The fact of the matter is in a sportive you pay for the route planning , signage, timing and feed stops - every other one I've done (including EdD) has delivered that - this one didn't.

JSS

Got a mention in this ride report from the Etape du Dales too...

http://www.sportive.com/cycling-reports ... ide-report

Harrogate Velo50

I think one of the problems is that this is one of the norths more popular and better sportive, so I can see why, when you are paying quite a lot of money to enter, people are not always happy if it's not quite what they wished. It's nit as if it's a new sportive, have to say though did it couple years ago and everything seemed ok

andy_from_embsay

I've done it before and it was spot on (to be fair everything else was fine this time, particularly given one of the roads closed due to a landslide the week before - it's just somebody cocked up either quantities or control at feedstops).

As I said I really, really hope it wasn't "pirates" grabbing a sandwich - according to Strava at least four or five people I know rode the route on the day and weren't entered - I suspect the weather forecast brought more extra people than usual out, but you have to hope they didn't do any more than ride the route and stop at a cafe on the way.

overlord2

My complaints come down the the people riding it. STILL people throw down wrappers and more worrying banana skins. Is it hard work putting it in a jersey or don't you want to ruin your Assos top with some sticky gel? How conciderate.

If they did run out of food it was a bit poor. But then an experienced cyclist should carry enough to get round and not have to rely on feed stations. Even take money so you can call in a shop.

I didnt think this ride was as good as the White Rose Classic imo and not as tough either.

Tiesetrotter

Do you think they really are 'throwing' them down? Mostly these are things people don't put back in their jerseys properly. Saw that happen twice, one I bothered to pick up and hand back and the guy was both mortified and grateful.

I suppose I could have ridden by and whinged. It was a wonderful ride and route though, but the feed stations were, to say the least, chaotic. They should look at Action Medical Research sportives for the benchmark. I left just before 8:30 as it took a while to get off as they rightly spaced us out properly otherwise the smaller lanes on climbs would have been clogged and the descents dangerous. But the feed stations, Tan Hill especially, were a bit of a frenzy with boxes of stuff just lying around. I'll take it though as it was for charity and the rugby club fed and watered us perfectly at the end.

markhewitt1978

But the point of sportives is that you don't have to carry all your food around with you. Otherwise you're just paying to ride on public roads.