Condor Acciaio Stainless

jamie4759

Morning all. Has anyone ridden the Condor stainless Acciaio? I saw it recently in the shop and thought how nice it looked. The only thing is, how and why is it so expensive when other stainless steel frames are much cheaper (IE Rourke, Enigma etc.). Also, am I the only person that thinks it looks like the Cinelli XCR? I would be interested to know who makes the Condor frames if not Cinelli (including the other bikes) and any feedback on the stainless Acciaio. I have always liked Condor's frames but I was wondering what people thought of the quality compared to local frame makers (I would think that Condor get them made by good builders). For example, If you look at the video of the carbon Leggero being made, the bloke in the film looks like a bloke that is also in the Sarto video (IMHO).

bendertherobot

Bear in mind that the stainless version IS custom. They'll make it to measure and in any one of 50 colours all for that RRP.

No idea how that compares to other similar frames but, if I won the lottery, it would definitely be on my list.

If I didn't really need the custom option I think I might just opt for the Super Acciaio

sungod

the condor certainly bears a close resemblance to the cinelli - looks like same seatpost clamp, rear hanger, cable stops for instance - it's built from the same columbus tubeset so some of that is to be expected, but also using the columbus minimal fork? hmm

condor's website says "Each bicycle frame is built by our craftsmen in Italy and may take up to 16 weeks to complete before being sent to London for inspection and building.", seems pretty likely they get it made by cinelli in italy and that it's an xcr with condor detailing

btw, i'd forget 16 weeks if you were to order now, italy shuts down for summer hols, could be 20+

fwiw i've got an original cineli xcr, the mirror polished one, ride is lovely, but the columbus minimal fork is too flexy for fast corners, fitted an enve 2.0 which is much better

teddyuk

Hi, I just bought a custom Acciaio frame (http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12969528). Every steel Condor frame is made in Italy by their own workplaces. There are a lot of similarity between steel frames of different brands, I think becuase the most common tube sets come from few companies.

The Stainless steel frame is expensive but it is custom tailored. A custom stainless steel frame from Donhou starts from £2500 (frame only, 13 month waiting list and ask for a £350 deposit to secure a place in the queue). Feather from £2400 (frame only, £600 deposit and 18 months of waiting list).

LegendLust

I was told that Condor's frames are built by Sarto.

The prices quoted for the UK builders like Donhou and Feather make the Legend Fedaia look good value. A handbuilt frame by a master, and only 6 - 8 weeks to wait!

http://lebeauvelo.co.uk/index.php/bikes ... 103-fedaia

teddyuk

The prices quoted are for real (forgot to say it) and updated to the Bespoked 2014 show.

on-yer-bike

More likely that Condor and Cinelli use the same builder for that frame. Ive ridden a Super Accacio for about a mile and its very full on and stiff.

giant_man

Enigma will build you a better XCr frame, for cheaper.

sungod

presumably you've ridden all the xcr frames in order to make such a judgement and are not merely voicing an opinion

giant_man

absolutely ...

bmxboy10

I love the steel condor bikes but £2800 is silly money especially as you can get a custom Rourke in 953 for a grand less!

bmxboy10

LegendLust wrote:

I was told that Condor's frames are built by Sarto.

The prices quoted for the UK builders like Donhou and Feather make the Legend Fedaia look good value. A handbuilt frame by a master, and only 6 - 8 weeks to wait!

http://lebeauvelo.co.uk/index.php/bikes ... 103-fedaia

That legend is sweet

mm1

I've seen what appears to be exactly the same frame as the Condor from Torelli, reviewed in Road Bike Action magazine. Possibly this one www.torelli.com/frames/torelli/steel/il30.html my guess is that its a Cinelli that's being sold in its raw state to other brands (Condor's usual tubing supplier is Dedacci). Condor finishing is fantastic, and I'd happly get an Acciao Stainless for that alone.

teddyuk

Condor uses both italian companies Dedacciai (not Dedacci) and Columbus.

The Torelli il30 frame has a classic seat post clamp

bendertherobot

solboy10 wrote:

I love the steel condor bikes but £2800 is silly money especially as you can get a custom Rourke in 953 for a grand less!

Sort of. Both are custom. Rourke's price is quoted as being "from" X. So it's not clear how much it actually is. Only a single colour as well. What's nice about the Condor is the rear triangle. THere's probably not much difference once all factors are factored in. After that it depends if you want a bike named after a bloke called Brian (or a famous Zulu battle) or a big fu****g bird.

Monty Dog

I would get Giovanni Pellizzoli to build a custom Aeta in XCr

bendertherobot

Would it be much better? The condor is Columbus xcr

bmxboy10

bendertherobot wrote:

solboy10 wrote:

I love the steel condor bikes but £2800 is silly money especially as you can get a custom Rourke in 953 for a grand less!

Sort of. Both are custom. Rourke's price is quoted as being "from" X. So it's not clear how much it actually is. Only a single colour as well. What's nice about the Condor is the rear triangle. THere's probably not much difference once all factors are factored in. After that it depends if you want a bike named after a bloke called Brian (or a famous Zulu battle) or a big fu****g bird.

Rourke comes with polished stays FOC and extra paint colours are cheap at about £30 so there is a difference and it's huge! I really think that Rourke offer excellent value compared to all the others.

jonny_trousers

solboy10 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

solboy10 wrote:

I love the steel condor bikes but £2800 is silly money especially as you can get a custom Rourke in 953 for a grand less!

Sort of. Both are custom. Rourke's price is quoted as being "from" X. So it's not clear how much it actually is. Only a single colour as well. What's nice about the Condor is the rear triangle. THere's probably not much difference once all factors are factored in. After that it depends if you want a bike named after a bloke called Brian (or a famous Zulu battle) or a big fu****g bird.

Rourke comes with polished stays FOC and extra paint colours are cheap at about £30 so there is a difference and it's huge! I really think that Rourke offer excellent value compared to all the others.

Purely through reading up and researching, I think I agree with this. If a court case in the autumn goes my way I want to treat myself to a nice steel frame and from a value plus years-of-experience point of view, Rourke keep coming out as winners. They can churn out some pretty garish looking colour schemes at times, but that's presumably the buyer's fault.

bendertherobot

If that price is correct then I agree!

JohnKempStarley

If cost was important it could be worth looking at this company

http://starleybikes.com/frames/road/ss-frame/

Seems pretty good for £1500 with carbon fork and carbon seatpost..... don't know what it rides like but could be worth a look for anyone else out there looking at stainless steel road frames. It would have been on my list of options had it been out at the time of my SA decision.

drlodge

solboy10 wrote:

Rourke comes with polished stays FOC and extra paint colours are cheap at about £30 so there is a difference and it's huge! I really think that Rourke offer excellent value compared to all the others.

Agree, Rourke are good value. IIRC my 953 frame came to about £2,200 and that includes the Ritchey carbon forks (the lightest/most expensive), Chris King headset and £200 extra for the custom paint job.

Waiting time for Rourke is about 6 months, amazing to read that Feather is an 18 month wait!! Doesn't surprise me though, his attention to detail is second to none.

teddyuk

JohnKempStarley wrote:

If cost was important it could be worth looking at this company

http://starleybikes.com/frames/road/ss-frame/

Seems pretty good for £1500 with carbon fork and carbon seatpost..... don't know what it rides like but could be worth a look for anyone else out there looking at stainless steel road frames. It would have been on my list of options had it been out at the time of my SA decision.

I had a look at that frame (saw it a the bicycle show in London and it is lovely). I had a chat about it whit Tom Donhou and Ricky Feather and both told me that the frame looks good, but the tube quality is not the best (in their opinion). Then I left the idea of a stainless steel frame for a normal steel to save some £ and invest in new components.

JohnKempStarley

Its a difficult one as any company selling SS frames aren't going to sell thousands so the price will be high.... and affected by how much profit anyone wishes to make from them. There is a 5yr warranty on the frameset by the T's and C's though. I went for the Super Acciaio frameset and its great, I'd been aiming for titanium but the frames of interest were either too expensive or, in the case of lynskey cooper, on long lead times ( they've since added two £999 frames which look good ). Rourke looked great for a steel frame but long lead times scared me away.

I think I'd have be torn between a racing oriented titanium frame ( enigma equinox etc ) or Extensor if I had a good cash pot. As it turned out the SA frameset is more capable than I ever will be so I'm very contented.

jamie4759

Which frame did Tom Donhou and Ricky Feather say wasn't the best? Was it it the Condor stainless or the Starley?

JohnKempStarley

The comments referred to the starley JKS SS frame, the SA frame I mentioned was the standard deda frame of 2012. So the condor SS is still ok

jonny_trousers

No SS Super Acciaio fans tempted by the Genesis Volare then?

oldmuthariley

If you go for a Rourke be aware that communication may be tricky (as in speaking directly to the builder about what it is you want) sporadic email contact can be frustrating.
They tend to measure you up and then build your frame without any further consultation unless you really push for it.
Also be aware of the weight of the frame if you get it built in 953 - it can be quite hefty depending on the size.
It could work out at approximately £1 per 1 gram if the frame costs you nearly £2K.
That said the frame are very well built but just a few things to consider it you want a custom frame...

jonny_trousers

oldmuthariley wrote:

If you go for a Rourke be aware that communication may be tricky (as in speaking directly to the builder about what it is you want) sporadic email contact can be frustrating.
They tend to measure you up and then build your frame without any further consultation unless you really push for it.
Also be aware of the weight of the frame if you get it built in 953 - it can be quite hefty depending on the size.
It could work out at approximately £1 per 1 gram if the frame costs you nearly £2K.
That said the frame are very well built but just a few things to consider it you want a custom frame...

Thanks for the info! Always good to hear all aspects of the story. I think you're the gent who sold his 953; did it turn out not to be the bike you hoped it would be?

drlodge

oldmuthariley wrote:

If you go for a Rourke be aware that communication may be tricky (as in speaking directly to the builder about what it is you want) sporadic email contact can be frustrating.
They tend to measure you up and then build your frame without any further consultation unless you really push for it.
Also be aware of the weight of the frame if you get it built in 953 - it can be quite hefty depending on the size.
It could work out at approximately £1 per 1 gram if the frame costs you nearly £2K.
That said the frame are very well built but just a few things to consider it you want a custom frame...

Agree with that in part. Communication can be tricky - Gareth is the main point of contact and you can get him on email or phone. Jason is more difficult but I had no problem dealing with him via Twitter DM and email. He responded to twitter DMs quite quickly, and I made some quite significant changes to the tubing and paint design at a very late stage. He is eager to please, just be clear on what you want.

The frames are not light, my 953 with Campag Super Record weighs 8kg. But then that's just a couple of bidons heavier than a feather light carbon fibre bike. The frame fits like a glove, is super comfy and with deep carbon wheels goes like brown stuff off a shiny shovel.

bmxboy10

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

No SS Super Acciaio fans tempted by the Genesis Volare then?

Have looked at the 931 version as Epic have it for a good price. I don't think the volare is as desirable IMO but nice all the same.