Questions before I begin modifying my road bike

maxrodgers

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum so first of all...hello, I am Max and hope to get to know you all. I am new to road bikes. Out of necessity I started riding a mountain bike to and from university and totally (and unexpectedly) fell in love with cycling in the process (I hadn't ridden a bike since I was a child). Having little funds but still desperately wanting to upgrade to a road bike, but not wanting to buy a cheap factory one, I began looking for an old steel one. I have just bought my first road bike which is a 1980s Dawes Galaxy. I am completely in love with it, it is so much nicer to ride than my mountain bike. I probably paid too much for it at £200 but it was in good condition, has suntour components and reynolds 531 tubing so its not too bad. Plus once you fall for a certain bike there's not much you can do.

As is the case with many vintage bikes it has down tube friction shifters. A quirk I was really looking forward to trying out. In all honesty after the last few weeks of daily riding I am not getting any happier with them, being as I am, much more acquainted with shifting from the handle bar. I have come off twice already due to my inability to properly work these things and I have decided I want a change. My intention is to buy a set of Shimano 105 levers and derailleur and convert it. I have seen some guides on the conversion and it seems fairly straightforward.

I'm getting a little confused about the nomenclature of the gearing however and I want to fully understand before I buy. A lot of the levers available are for "7 speed" bikes, by which they mean 7 rings at the back. My bike has five chain rings in the rear and two up front which as far as I'm concerned makes it a ten speed. However when looking for the components for this conversion should I try and find ten speed shift levers or five speed (which would be more consistent with the "7 speed" naming system as that seems to be based solely on rear chain rings)?

Also, has anyone done this type of conversion on a vintage road bike? If so has it been a positive change?

Thanks for any help.

I couldn't find a section just for vintage road bikes otherwise I would have posted there, sorry if I missed it.

Max

ForumNewbie

Hi Max, it's fairly unusual for bikes nowadays to have only 5 cogs at the back. I'm no expert but I would think you need a complete new transmission system, rather than just new shifters and derailleur. Most road bikes now have at least 9 cogs at the back. Dawes Galaxys now have a triple chainring at the front and probably either 9 or 10 cogs at the back. I have a Dawes Audax with a triple at the front and 10 cogs at the back which gives me a good range of gearing. If I was in your position I would go to a good LBS (local bike shop) and see what they can do at what cost.

Sawilson

If your going to fit 10 speed shimano 105 levers you will need to replace
Front/rear mech
Crankset
Chain
Freewheel for cassette.
Wheel set, as yours will have a freewheel mounting as opposed to cassette mounting.
The rear triangle will have to be splayed open to accept wider axle on new rear wheel.
You will have to check brake pull ratio on new levers matches your brakes as well ?
There maybe a few other compatibility issues as well.
A lot of cyclists do convert older frames to modern components but it's more a labour of love for a classic frame rather than a cheap way to upgrade to modern gearing, you might as well go and buy a new / used bike with 10 speed.

rolf_f

As per above - except brake pull ratio stuff - I think that's mainly Shimano marketing bull to try to make people upgrade complete groupsets rather than just shifters.... You pull a lever, the lever moves a cable, the cable moves the caliper. The exact amount of movement that occurs at the brake pad won't vary by much and you'll get used to any change in a few minutes. If you didn't, then road bikers would never be able to get the hang of hydraulic disc brakes!

It's a lot cheaper and simpler just to get the hang of using downtube shifters. There is nothing wrong with them and people lasted for a good 60 years plus using them before STi shifters came along. There's nothing wrong with STi levers either but if you are on a budget, it simply isn't worth spending money converting (debatable as to whether it is worth converting if you do have the money!).

For old bikes, you can do worse than to ask on the Retrobike forum.

Mad_Malx

OP: I see you confusion over the number of gears. Your 2x5 is what was called a 10 speed, but '10 speed shifters' mean that they are designed for 10 cogs at the back. Combined brake/gear change shifters ("brifters") are now mostly for 9, 10 or 11 cogs at the back. Plenty of 9's around still, and a few older 7 and 8's. As said above, any of these will also need new cassette, chain, derailleurs, wheel, frame spacing....

Bar end friction shifters would probably work on your existing setup, and a lot of tourers like them (Edit: but I'd go with the learn to use the down tube shifters).

random picture off the web:

iron-clover

Well, you bought well with a Dawes Galaxy- especially if the frame is still in good nick! They are probably the finest Touring bikes there are.

Unfortunately with some bikes that are that old most of the components are not interchangeable with modern parts. You may have 27" wheels, which means finding new wheels that will accommodate the modern cassettes (cogs at the back) that you'll need with any combined brake/ gear lever system in that diameter might be a problem.
Also, your frame probably takes cantilever brakes and won't have the drilling for the modern dual pivot brakes found on road bikes. This could be a big problem, as the amount of pull you have on the new combined brake levers might be incompatible with your brakes.
Luckily the resurgence of cyclocross means that modern canti brakes are now available that can be used with the new levers.

The easiest solution will be to just get used to the down tube shifting- looking ahead and changing gears early if you see a hill coming is a good idea!

maxrodgers

Thanks for all the thoughts. It certainly sounds like it will be more difficult than I first thought. I will give the downtube shifters a little longer. I guess trying to get used to the highly reactive nature of a road bike (compared with my very sluggish Raleigh mountain bike) and an alien form of shifting at the same time is what is throwing me, even indexed DT shifters would have been better for me. However I think that if I do still decide to go ahead and try and replace them I will see if my bike shop can do it for me as everything you've all listed sounds quite daunting. I don't mind doing the complete overhaul, replacing the complete set but I doubt I could do that myself.
If I do do it then I will post again to show how it has all gone for anyone who might be interested.

Thanks again

rolf_f

maxrodgers wrote:

Thanks for all the thoughts. It certainly sounds like it will be more difficult than I first thought. I will give the downtube shifters a little longer. I guess trying to get used to the highly reactive nature of a road bike (compared with my very sluggish Raleigh mountain bike) and an alien form of shifting at the same time is what is throwing me, even indexed DT shifters would have been better for me. However I think that if I do still decide to go ahead and try and replace them I will see if my bike shop can do it for me as everything you've all listed sounds quite daunting. I don't mind doing the complete overhaul, replacing the complete set but I doubt I could do that myself.
If I do do it then I will post again to show how it has all gone for anyone who might be interested.

Thanks again

You've got much narrower bars - road bikes of any sort feel twitchy compared to MTBs until you get used to them. It may help to stick to using your right hand to shift both levers - reaching through the frame rather than swapping hands. And, in any case, you can just avoid changing the front as much as possible for now.

To get a bike shop to do this work will cost more than it is worth. If it is in nice condition, you could probably get more than £200 for your Galaxy via a well worded Ebay ad. That would then give you the money to buy the bike you actually want rather than trying to convert this one into something it isn't!

iron-clover wrote:

Also, your frame probably takes cantilever brakes and won't have the drilling for the modern dual pivot brakes found on road bikes. This could be a big problem, as the amount of pull you have on the new combined brake levers might be incompatible with your brakes.
Luckily the resurgence of cyclocross means that modern canti brakes are now available that can be used with the new levers.

So you are saying the cantis won't be a big problem then?!

Chances are, if it is 6 speed with twin chainrings then the brakes are probably more likely to be Weinmann Centre pulls which are very flexible and therefore ineffective. But I think you can get modern Tektro copies cheaply which presumably aren't as bendy and are therefore worth considering.

simon_masterson

Downtube shifting is fine. No more difficult than reaching for a bottle.

Once used to it, it's very easy, and shifting is very smooth with minimal maintenance. I have no plans to change. You could try bar end shifters as an alternative.

You have a great bike, but I wouldn't bother with any conversions - the modifications (to your frame - would probably need respacing for higher than 7 speed, cable guides) and part replacements (rear wheel, probably rear derailleur, levers) will be costly and time consuming for what you will end up with.

markhewitt1978

Agreed with the posts. Downtube shifters are contemporary to the bike so keep them! Plenty people still use them even a guy on our club who is way faster than me!

maxrodgers

Thanks again,

I am definitely giving serious thought to just persevering with my current shifters as a result of all the advice. Up until today I have been riding, for the most part, with the chain on the small chain ring and the higher (smaller) rear cogs (although not the smallest as I have been instructed to stay out of those extreme chain angles, which sounds like good advice to me) but out riding today I switched to generally having the chain on the large chain ring and shifting the rear as and when and have found that shifting seems a bit smoother under these circumstances, does that make any sense to anyone?

Also I think my main problem with the shifting is in moving to lower gears, moving up is easy enough but my lever is quite stiff when pulling it back toward me so I often end up pulling a bit too hard and jumping a couple of gears. Should I see about having that adjusted to make it a bit looser or is it essential that it be stiff like that?

Cheers

simon_masterson

Travel should be smooth - moving as freely as your rear derailleur and levers should if you disconnect them. What condition are your cables and housings in?

maxrodgers

The cables going to the mechanisms look a little rusty possibly. Perhaps they could do with changing. All of the housings look fine.

maxrodgers

Thanks,

I should point out that I am not prejudiced against down tube friction shifters, in fact I can see that they are a very elegant strategy for shifting due to their simplicity and as a result, over many miles, are probably more reliable than many other types of shifting as there are fewer complications to deal with, if anything I'm disappointed that I haven't taken to them as I would have wished as changing it sounds like a headache. Nor am I waiting for a more modern bike, I love this bike very much and imagine I will be using it for many years to come. I was simply enquiring as to the possibility of converting the gears into something I was more familiar with so I could feel more in control of the bike. I definitely agree that a service would be beneficial though.

Thanks again for all the other replies,

rolf_f

Just enjoy the simplicity. The great thing about friction shifters is that all you need to do to set them up is get the limit screws in the right place! No faffing around with indexing or any of that nonsense. Do it once and then do it again several years later when the cable needs changing!

dulwichiron

http://www.retroshift.com/store/products/shifters/

mattsccm

Two very useful forums would be the Retrobike one where you will find more info that you know what to do with and also the CTC one where you have some very long term mechanics with experience of that bike.both will probably have some one to tell you the colour of the original grease if needed!
Nowt wrong with folks here so much as slightly more specialised knowledge else where as well.
To keep it simple.
Replace inner and outer cables for the few quid it costs.
Replace brake blocks as they will be hard if old and modern compounds are good.
Get it set up to fit you properly .
ride it through the summer to get familiar with it.
You might get a 7 speed freewheel in the back. Check the distance between the rear dropouts to see what that is.

farrina

Sawilson wrote:

The rear triangle will have to be splayed open to accept wider axle on new rear wheel.

Bit more information on this aspect here http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html