Stans Alpha rims - not recommended with tubes???

JonEdwards

Been pricing up new commuting wheels for my other half - she's changing to discs as she has a much longer steeper commute now, and her old rims are worn paper thin.

I was tossing up the differences between rebuilding her old (disc friendly) Hope Ti-glide hubs with new rims or buying a Hope Hoop Pro2/Stans Alpha wheel set when I came across this statement on Just Riding Along's website:-

Following recent advice from Stans NoTubes we now only recommend Alpha rims for use with tubeless road tyres only, if used with inner tubes we suggest a maximum of 90psi

Any thoughts/comments? Seems a bit daft if they really aren't happy tubed up - road tubelss just hasn't taken off the same way MTB has. Sure being a wider rim and with 25mm tyres on, you probably wouldn't want to go much more than 90 anyway, but running them on the limit is potentially foolhardy, maybe?

The interest in Alphas is down to me having an excellent deal on Hope stuff available, and the Alpha 400 is the only "wider" rim they do as an off the peg Hoop so if I buy her those, it's not much more expensive than rebuilding her old hubs with different rims. Obviously there's a lot more choice doing the latter, but even so, 32 holed Alpha 340 discs should make a decent, light, reasonably tough wheelset, now that they don't need to deal with braking too...? She's not an agressive rider, so weight is arguably more important than the last iota of stiffness/strength.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Jon

ugo.santalucia

I have used them at 60 PSI tubed no problem... not at high pressure though. If you want Stans rims, I suggest you go tubeless, it's easier than people think

JonEdwards

If it was a best bike, I'd have no problem going tubeless - I've been doing it on mtbs for 10years+ now.

On a commuter that's going to get abused and ridden in all kinds of weather? I think that's a bit overkill. The problem with tubeless I've always found, is that when it works it's brilliant, when it doesn't it's an utter pain in the arse. I can live without the angry phonecalls when it's dark, raining, she's flatted, and is now covered in latex, can't get the tyre off to put a tube in, or can't get it back on once the tube is in etc etc...

ugo.santalucia

For a commuter, Stans rims are a bit OTT. But following your logic, fit some 28 mm tyres and run them at 70-75 PSI with tubes and you'll be fine

JonEdwards

So what rim would you suggest (cheaper would most definitely be good!), as wide, as light? Velocity A23?

As I said, the initial reason for the interest in the Alphas, was due to the cheap deal I can get on them built into Hope Hoops.

ugo.santalucia

I had the A 23 before the Stans... heavier (460) and duller but I somehow did prefer the feel... I don't think I'll get super light rims in the future... they are just more worry. Have you seen the Pacenti SL 23 disc? They thick all the boxes...
Archetype of course is a great rim that everybody love, if a tad heavier...

stanthomas

JonEdwards wrote:

...On a commuter that's going to get abused and ridden in all kinds of weather? I think that's a bit overkill. The problem with tubeless I've always found, is that when it works it's brilliant, when it doesn't it's an utter pain in the ars*. I can live without the angry phonecalls when it's dark, raining, she's flatted, and is now covered in latex, can't get the tyre off to put a tube in, or can't get it back on once the tube is in etc etc...

One of the compelling reasons to go tubeless is an end to fixing flats at the side of the road - in the rain, in the cold, in the dark. I'd say go with Hutchinson Intensives, they're tough and seem to last forever (but do require sealant). With some occasional maintenance to pick the out the thorns and keep the sealant topped-up it should make for domestic bliss.

ugo.santalucia

stanthomas wrote:

One of the compelling reasons to go tubeless is an end to fixing flats at the side of the road - in the rain, in the cold, in the dark. I'd say go with Hutchinson Intensives, they're tough and seem to last forever (but do require sealant). With some occasional maintenance to pick the out the thorns and keep the sealant topped-up it should make for domestic bliss.

Indeed

http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... hat-doesnt

RobinB2

Hmm - interesting and timely. I've been using Stans 340 rims with clinchers and inner tubes for about 4 months without any problem. However, yesterday I hit a bump in the road (my own fault - I was trying to clean mud off my cleats and wasn't paying attention) and there was a loud pop from the rear tire. Initially I thought the bump had cut a hole in the tyre sidewall. However, when I stopped, I realised the tyre had been pushed off the rim and the inner tube had then burst. I was running at about 100 psi, so not much over the 90 maximum mentioned

I may contact Stans to see if tyre choice could be a factor - I had been running on Conti GP4000s but recently switched to Scwalbe Ultremos

ugo.santalucia

RobinB2 wrote:

Hmm - interesting and timely. I've been using Stans 340 rims with clinchers and inner tubes for about 4 months without any problem. However, yesterday I hit a bump in the road (my own fault - I was trying to clean mud off my cleats and wasn't paying attention) and there was a loud pop from the rear tire. Initially I thought the bump had cut a hole in the tyre sidewall. However, when I stopped, I realised the tyre had been pushed off the rim and the inner tube had then burst. I was running at about 100 psi, so not much over the 90 maximum mentioned

I may contact Stans to see if tyre choice could be a factor - I had been running on Conti GP4000s but recently switched to Scwalbe Ultremos

Not unheard of

The thing is Stans is an excellent tubeless system and as such it is a bad system for conventional clinchers... in the same way Velocity is not such a great tubeless system but it works fine with tubes. it is unfortunate this rim has been plagued by a lot of problems, because if used for what is supposed to do, it is pretty good

cycleclinic

I entirley agree with he above. I mean look at the company name Stan's no tubes!!!!!!!!

Torque Wrench

I recently experienced a catastrophic failure while descending an alpine col using a Stans Alpha ZTR 400 rim with a Continental Grand Prix tyre. There was a loud bang and a characteristic long split along a length of the tube which indicates that the tyre bead had lifted off the rim lifting exposing the inner tube which exploded. Fortunately, this failure was on the rear wheel at slow speed as I had just exited a corner. I did not fall but it wrecked the rim having rolled along the road on a totally flat tyre. This tyre had been on the rim for a few months so I don’t believe it was a mounting issue. I suspect the temperature increase of the rim and tyre due to braking was just enough to shift the fit from marginal to insufficient.

Folding Grand Prix 4000 tyres state "mount only on hook rims", non-folding Continental Gatorskin also state "mount only on hook rims”. Although other manufacturers do not print this on their tyres I suspect their regular clincher tyres should also be mounted only on hook rims.

It is only in the FAQ section of the Stans web site where it says road tires that are labelled “Use only with hook bead rims” should not be used on the Alpha rims. It seems Stans recognise that the shallow hook on these rims is insufficient to retain the bead of a regular clincher tyre, which is more stretchy than the bead on a proper tubeless tyre.

I think the only safe tyres to mount on these rims are tubeless tyres, used either tubeless or with a tube. Only tubeless tyres have a bead that can withstand the expanding force of a pumped up road tyre and not require the hook to stop them stretching to the point where they can lift off the rim.

I’ve e mailed Stans suggesting that they make this clear on their product information pages. No reply yet.