Does this headset look right to you?

matt-h

My Focus has made a cracking/clunking noise over bad surfaces for a while.
I'm 99% sure its coming from the front end
I have tried lots of areas to find the solution such as
*making sure headset was tight
*making sure stem was tight
*checking to see if Garmin mount was getting knocked by cables
*removing latex tubes and replacing with butyl and thread nut.

This evening i removed the handlebars and this is my headset.
Is it supposed to protrude this much?
I ould have thought it was supposed to sit flush?




MAtt

ugo.santalucia

It's the usual problem.. .the stem doesn't clamp the steerer properly and the step pushes the plug up... been there, done that...
There is no real solution, unfortunately. You can push the plug down and tighten it again, it will stay snug for a while... not forever

matt-h

Cheers Ugo.
When you say push it down I understand that as tw*t it with a hammer?

Matt

ugo.santalucia

matt-h wrote:

Cheers Ugo.
When you say push it down I understand that as tw*t it with a hammer?

Matt

No, you undo slightly the bolt at the top, push it down and re-tighten

Barbarossa

Take the cap off, there should be a hex socket inside. Loosen this a turn or two and give the middle a tap. This will release the cone that expands the sleeve. You should be able to push the sleeve down, then tighten things up again.

matt-h

ugo.santalucia wrote:

matt-h wrote:

Cheers Ugo.
When you say push it down I understand that as tw*t it with a hammer?

Matt

No, you undo slightly the bolt at the top, push it down and re-tighten

Barbarossa wrote:

Take the cap off, there should be a hex socket inside. Loosen this a turn or two and give the middle a tap. This will release the cone that expands the sleeve. You should be able to push the sleeve down, then tighten things up again.

Lol. Cheers Fellas

Matt

patrickf

Would some carbon assembly paste help the stem clamp the steerer a bit better?

mr_evil

Make sure you do up the expander to the recommended torque, whatever that is. If you don't, then tightening the top cap will simply pull it up instead of preloading the headset properly. I think most people are afraid of tightening expanders too much, thinking that they will break the steerer like over-tightening a stem will, but carbon is much stronger in tension than compression.

ugo.santalucia

patrickf wrote:

Would some carbon assembly paste help the stem clamp the steerer a bit better?

In my experience it does absolutely nothing

ugo.santalucia

Mr Evil wrote:

Make sure you do up the expander to the recommended torque, whatever that is. If you don't, then tightening the top cap will simply pull it up instead of preloading the headset properly. I think most people are afraid of tightening expanders too much, thinking that they will break the steerer like over-tightening a stem will, but carbon is much stronger in tension than compression.

The thing is the problem is the stem not clamping properly on the steerer, hence pushing the cap and allowing the plug to work itself loose

matt-h

I'm not sure how this tightens?
There doesn't seem to be any Allen adjustment

Maybe I need a better headset?

Matt

ugo.santalucia

That's not part of the headset... it's a steerer plug

mitchgixer6

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the stem isn't clamping properly Paolo? If the stem wasn't clamping properly then it would be fairly obvious as it would mean the bars would be loose.

As long as the carbon bung (the bit that was sitting proud of the steerer) is tight enough to pre-load the headset bearings it then provides no further use. Once the steerer is tight you could remove the bung completely and the bike would function as normal.

ugo.santalucia

mitchgixer6 wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the stem isn't clamping properly Paolo? If the stem wasn't clamping properly then it would be fairly obvious as it would mean the bars would be loose.

As long as the carbon bung (the bit that was sitting proud of the steerer) is tight enough to pre-load the headset bearings it then provides no further use. Once the steerer is tight you could remove the bung completely and the bike would function as normal.

THe stem slowly push upwards and creates a bit of play in the headset... basically it slips up the steerer

mitchgixer6

Ah right. Still tight enough to not spin around the steerer though and make the bars loose I presume.

mitchgixer6

Matt, if you drop a 4mm or 5mm key in the hole it should make some sense. Not sure which way to turn it going by that legend. It's usually a reverse thread as it's essentially upside down.

ugo.santalucia

mitchgixer6 wrote:

Ah right. Still tight enough to not spin around the steerer though and make the bars loose I presume.

No it just slips... if you ride on smooth roads it can stay tight for months, but I had it on my CX bike... needless to say it needed tightening day in day out

mr_evil

ugo.santalucia wrote:

patrickf wrote:

Would some carbon assembly paste help the stem clamp the steerer a bit better?

In my experience it does absolutely nothing

Maybe some brands don't work as well? My experience is that it makes a significant difference to the required torque, e.g. a stem that might have trouble holding at 6Nm without paste will hold fast at only 4Nm with paste.

on-yer-bike

Down that hole in the steerer bung there should be an allen key socket. Undo it slightly, pull the bung out and study it. Work out how it works and then you will understand whats going on. Before you put it back in make sure the inside of the steerer tube is not greasy. Tighten the bung firmly but dont go mad. Put the stem and spacers etc back on and tighten very gently the top bolt to load the HS bearings, you hardly need any torque.
When you tighten the stem bolts alternate between the two bolts to create even pressure and tighten to 4NM.
You may have to load the bearings a bit more after riding but remember to loosen the stem bolts first.
Use carbon assembly paste under the stem clamp area.

ugo.santalucia

The thing is when you need a gel with some particles in it to keep a joint together (or loctite), you know what kind of engineering you are dealing with. You might as well wrap a length of gaffer tape or join them by wrapping steel wire.

You can put it the way you want, but it's just a load of crap

marcusww

Mr Evil wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

patrickf wrote:

Would some carbon assembly paste help the stem clamp the steerer a bit better?

In my experience it does absolutely nothing

Maybe some brands don't work as well? My experience is that it makes a significant difference to the required torque, e.g. a stem that might have trouble holding at 6Nm without paste will hold fast at only 4Nm with paste.

This is my experience as well.

DeVlaeminck

Thanks for this chaps, same problem on same bike as the OP fixed for now using same method, it isn't a great design is it.

keezx

The A-head design is great, but it was designed in the time carbon teerers weren't usual.
I heve 2 bikes with allloy steerers and starnuts and didn't have to adjust them in > 10000 km.

sextoke1

matt-h wrote:

My Focus has made a cracking/clunking noise over bad surfaces for a while.
I'm 99% sure its coming from the front end
I have tried lots of areas to find the solution such as
*making sure headset was tight
*making sure stem was tight
*checking to see if Garmin mount was getting knocked by cables
*removing latex tubes and replacing with butyl and thread nut.

This evening i removed the handlebars and this is my headset.
Is it supposed to protrude this much?
I ould have thought it was supposed to sit flush?




MAtt

My 2015 is still OK, as I have it out at the moment. When I opened it first there was over 5mm of a gap to the top of the stem. It looked like the steering tube was short. One question I have is, I now have to replace the bottom bearing in the headset again. Second time in two years. Bearing is rusty and the grease is quite brown in the bearing. I changed it myself last year and used Finish Line waterproof grease with PTFE, this grease still looks OK but not the bearing. The top bearing is perfect. I changed both last year as a pair and will do the same this year. Just wondering if they should be a rubber seal underneath the bearing.

sextoke1

sextoke1 wrote:

matt-h wrote:

My Focus has made a cracking/clunking noise over bad surfaces for a while.
I'm 99% sure its coming from the front end
I have tried lots of areas to find the solution such as
*making sure headset was tight
*making sure stem was tight
*checking to see if Garmin mount was getting knocked by cables
*removing latex tubes and replacing with butyl and thread nut.

This evening i removed the handlebars and this is my headset.
Is it supposed to protrude this much?
I ould have thought it was supposed to sit flush?




MAtt

My 2015 is still OK, as I have it out at the moment. When I opened it first there was over 5mm of a gap to the top of the stem. It looked like the steering tube was short. One question I have is, I now have to replace the bottom bearing in the headset again. Second time in two years. Bearing is rusty and the grease is quite brown in the bearing. I changed it myself last year and used Finish Line waterproof grease with PTFE, this grease still looks OK but not the bearing. The top bearing is perfect. I changed both last year as a pair and will do the same this year. Just wondering if they should be a rubber seal underneath the bearing.

..........The noise issue. I had a noise like your, what my one was the brake cable going through the top tube was hiting the inside of the tube in rough roads.