Advice needed - Rusty bearings on 4 week old bike.

Buns_of_Steel

Hi everyone i'm looking for some advice. I bought a new Scott Genius 720 4 weeks ago and i've had about 50 miles out of it. A few wet and muddy runs but mostly i've ridden in the dry. About a week ago i noticed some rust coloured water leaking out of the top of the headset. I went down to the store i bought the bike from and the guy said it was nothing to worry about just leave it a day or so to dry out. Seeing as there was clearly some rust in there i thought i'd take the forks off and dry things my self and give everything a bit of a clean and re-grease. This is what i found.

















Is this amount of rust and crud normal for something so young?

If it is what can i do i prevent it?

If it isn't what could have happened to cause it and what should i do about it?

I've got a 6 week service coming up so i could mention it then.

I wash my bike after most runs as even in the dry theres still alot of standing water about so its still a bit dirty, i spray the bulky crap off with a hose and then bucket and sponge the rest of the finer stuff of. I dry my bike as thoroughly as i can but i dont see how i can dry inside the headset.

If anyone has any thoughts or has experienced something similar before then youre help would be much appreciated.

Cheers

mcnultycop

Hose or pressure washer?

Buns_of_Steel

Hose

cooldad

Is that actually rust or just mucky grease?
I would fit a decent headset.

Horton

Do you hose it down upside down per chance? I.e. With it standing on the saddle/handlebars - one of my mates used to hose his down like that and could never figure out why his headsets died so quickly - seems he used to blast the crap off the wheels and underside of the crown with the hose and with that, force a fair bit of crap and a lot of water past the seals on the lower race...

Looks perfectly salvageable mind - clean it up, regrease, put it back together in the right order then keep the hose away from it in the future. When it does die, as CD said, get a decent one - they're inexpensive.

miceden

Get a decent headset - you will eventually get some rusting but this amount after that little use is too much too quickly, or, there wasn't enough grease in ere to begin with.

Buns_of_Steel

Thanks for the replies.

cooldad - yes its rust, the bearings are completley ruined.

Horton - i have hosed it upside down a few times. An amateur mistake? I'm reasonably new to the mountain biking world so forgive me.

Regarding a decent headset, what would people recommend?

supersonic

That's a very cheap and nasty headset. It can be prevented - but requires frequent cleaning and greasing.

Horton

Wouldn't say a rookie mistake but definitely keep the hose away from any of your bearings - hubs, bottom bracket and headset...

Headset wise, Superstar ones seem pretty reasonable - had one on my commuter which is outside for 12 hours a day in all weathers and that is still creak free and silky smooth after at least 12 months. They're only about £20, come in loads of sizes & colours and run on easily replaceable sealed bearing units... When replacing just make sure you get the right size for your frame/forks - they're are a lot of different types out there... It might also be best to get your lbs to fit it as it easy enough with the right tools, but also easy enough to cock it up and knacker a frame.

benpinnick

That's a ludiculously cheap headset for a 3k bike. I'd be asking the dealer for a good deal on a hope or cane creek to make up for it.

cooldad

benpinnick wrote:

That would be a ludicrously cheap headset for a £300 bike.

FTFY

abarth_1200

benpinnick wrote:

That's a ludiculously cheap headset for a 3k bike. I'd be asking the dealer for a good deal on a hope or cane creek to make up for it.

This, don't just take there word, question why it rusted so quick.

Looks like it wasn't packed with enough grease, straight out packaging and into head tube more than likely, I would be concerned with your other bearings if that is the case.

Buns_of_Steel

So im thinking something like this http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/headset/product/review-hope-tapered-headset-11-44411/

What would be the signs that the hubs and bottom bracket have become compromised? They look ok on the outside.

I'm worried they're going to see i dont know what im really talking about and fob me off with some half baked solution. I wouldnt even know how to check they've done a good job.

cooldad

Hubs should be Shimano - so cup and cone and decently sealed, so just need regular servicing, which is easy. BB is XT - no issues there. I can't believe that headset though - I'm sure the headset that is specced - Ritchey Pro Minus Tapered - has cartridge bearings. I'd check that first and work out what was actually in there.
The Hope is fine but pricey.

Horton

Buns_of_Steel wrote:

So im thinking something like this http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/headset/product/review-hope-tapered-headset-11-44411/

What would be the signs that the hubs and bottom bracket have become compromised? They look ok on the outside.

I'm worried they're going to see i dont know what im really talking about and fob me off with some half baked solution. I wouldnt even know how to check they've done a good job.

You'd know if any other bearings were toast just feeling how smooth things turn but with such little use, unless you've been firing a jet-wash straight at the bearings I'd expect them to be just fine.

The Hope is a good headset, but relatively expensive - there are similar performing headsets for less, but then again hope's after sales care is reportedly excellent and spares should be easily obtainable. See if your lbs will fit it free in recognition of the dreadful lifespan of the last one...

Boromedic

That looks a mess for such a short timespan and it also closely resembles the cheapo Ritchey OE tapered headset my Ghost came with. That went the same way but after maybe 4-5 months of use in winter, get a decent replacement and get the shop to fit it free as your bike has clearly been fitted with a defective, cheaper part.

Can't comment on other headsets but I got a Hope with a Hed Doctor great bit of kit and trouble free :-)

rockmonkeysc

That looks like the cheap and nasty Ritchy headset in my Boardman commuting bike. Mine rusted very quickly but a further year of neglect and it still works fine, slightly notchy but perfectly usable.

UncleMonty

Must have had the thinnest smear of grease when it was assembled to rust like that so quickly.

I wouldn't clean it, just put it back together, go back in and show them the pics.

montyburns56b

If you don't ride around with mudguards then it might also be an idea to fit one of these Lizard Skins Headset Covers.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/liza ... p-prod4773

cooldad

They just trap gunk.
Just don't hose the bike upside down, but ideally fit a decent headset.

Horton

montyburns56b wrote:

If you don't ride around with mudguards then it might also be an idea to fit one of these Lizard Skins Headset Covers.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/liza ... p-prod4773

I'm sorry, but IMHO, no, not a great idea - once the water and crap get in (which it will) it's then stuck in and creates a lovely grinding paste... Better just to get a decent sealed headset and avoid hosing it down... Although I do like a mucky nutz fender thing to keep crap out of my face, off the fork stanchions and off the lower race...

Buns_of_Steel

Thanks for all the responses, i really appreciate it.

I definitely wont be washing my bike upside down anymore, i'm probably going to lay off using a hose all together.
I've gone with the Hope tapered headset, picked one up today and dropped it into a bike shop close to work so i can pick it up at lunch.
I did attempt to clean up the original headset, most of the parts in the pictures cleaned up nicely with a bit of degreaser but the ball-bearing cage (pictured) was in pretty bad shape and was well beyond saving. Most of the balls and the cage itself were pretty rusted. The balls had little to no movement within the cage. It was incredibly flimsy as well. As gentle as i was, at some point i bent it slightly and some of the balls fell out.
The lower bearing was a sealed cartridge bearing, i pulled this out and had a look at it and it was in much better shape. Covered in rusty liquid/grease but the action was smooth and there was no sign of any surface rust at all. Seems strange to me that they would use two bearings like that which have such a big difference in life span and performance.

majormantra

There's pretty much no reason to turn a bike upside down ever. True story.

cooldad

I suppose your butler holds it up while you take wheels off?

majormantra

Bike in one hand, wheel in the other. Drop wheel out, lay bike on non-driveside.

Inversion is slightly less of a sin with a mtb than a road bike, but only slightly.

cooldad

I might have even taken you seriously until you mentioned road.

It's a bicycle. Not an egg.

Prowlus

Man after looking at that , i'm getting worried about my camber's headset design which of all things has exposed holes on top leading directly into the internal steerer!

RS300325

I've just had precisely the same problem on a Scott Spark 920, 13 weeks old, and a Ritchey Pro Minus Tapered headset that had all sorts of grinding and clicking noises. Took it apart to find rusted bearings and cages. All replaced with Hope now, only had it on the bike for a week or so so can't comment on the longevity of the new headset - but it looks to be a far better engineered product. Also replaced the Shimano BB with a Hope PF41.

I echo the points made on the this thread, disappointing to have what appears to be a cheap substandard part on a £3K bike.

Chunkers1980

Pretty sure in all these cases a good clean/degrease and then some proper new grease and lots of it you'd probably get a more than adequately functioning headset.

russyh

Yes an adequately functioning headset, but for a few weeks until it needs stripping, cleaning and greasing again. Best bet is to replace he headset with a decent quality cartridge style headset like the hope variant. I did the same on my Orange Five, its super slick now and not given me a moments grief in the 3 months i have used it.

Chunkers1980

That's a load of tosh. I have on my commuter a cane creek, bottom rung, barely sealed and it gets regreased every year and still works fine. Same caged bearings it came with 8 years and pushing 20k later