LBS no idea

deimosjohnny
deimosjohnny Posts: 135
edited May 2014 in Road general
So looking for a LBS to service my bike and upgrade. Needs a tighten up after being new out the box.

Pop in to the local 30 miles away, explain bought a bike online and that I need a service but that I am in the market for upgrades starting with wheels and brake set then swap out the sora for ultegra. Also want to build a relationship with LBS for servicing as will be getting a nearly new MTB full suss (trying to find a 2007 spesh enduro, why did i sell it WHY).

What bike? he asks I explain Mekk, I had barely finished saying then he says you have to ask yourself is it worth the upgrades. Sorry I ask, he says another cheap Taiwan bike not worth the effort, ok he says maybe you could do the wheels.

This was after an email asking if i supplied the parts what would be their costs for fitting and servicing listed the everything, to get a response you need to come in store technicians don't answer emails.

Slagging of your customers investment does not really endear the customer to you forget the fact I looked at several makes and did all my background on this brand, the guys behind it and most importantly the feedback from the people that have bought. I know my job inside out and I know there are new materials which appear that I may not know about yet. So to make a sweeping statement like that is poor form do you read your bike mags, do you go on forums, do you got to the bike shows i.e. do you keep current in your field?.

I can't afford to outlay £1500-£2000 on a bike in an initial buy. I can buy a bike and slowly upgrade it to this standard with new and sometimes nearly new parts. The reviews all point to this bike being perfect in this regard.

I guess I will be travelling 40 miles the other way to another LBS.

Not into naming or shaming, guy might have had a bad day, be pissed off with online sales or whatever but when your looking to spend good sums of money with him over the next few years and be a customer for years to come a little humility goes a long long way.
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Comments

  • I had barely finished saying then he says you have to ask yourself is it worth the upgrades. Sorry I ask, he says another cheap Taiwan bike not worth the effort, ok he says maybe you could do the wheels.

    Sounds like a great LBS, where is it?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • littledove44
    littledove44 Posts: 871
    I really hope you have another choice. Your LBS does not deserve a second chance.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Name and shame!
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • john1967
    john1967 Posts: 366
    sounds like the LBS made as much effort as you did.I can understand a shop not giving priority to customers who didnt make the effort to buy locally.Why not ask your online bike shop why they sent you a bike that needs tightening and ask them to fit your upgrades while your at it,good luck :D
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Learn to do it yourself - it's not difficult and you will save a 60-mile round trip to your 'local' bike shop (which isn't actually very local at all)...
  • Yep, do it yourself, and with the money you save you can afford even better upgrages :D
  • deimosjohnny
    deimosjohnny Posts: 135
    john1967 wrote:
    sounds like the LBS made as much effort as you did.I can understand a shop not giving priority to customers who didnt make the effort to buy locally.Why not ask your online bike shop why they sent you a bike that needs tightening and ask them to fit your upgrades while your at it,good luck :D

    Every new bike needs adjustment after a period of use and I am quite happy to pay £20-£30 to cover their time. If you buy from a shop they do it for free don't they or is included in the price.

    Was not asking for priority just service and good customer service not to be patronised or talked to in with contempt.

    So how local is local 5 miles, 20 miles, 30 miles. The closest shop is 30 miles in small town, the biggest city is 45 miles with two shops.

    I did go to a lot of effort I emailed the manufacturer to ask if anyone local dealt in their bikes however noone within 130miles stocked the bike I wanted so I bought online. So what difference would it be if I bough the bike from that shop 130miles away but wanted my LBS to do the after sale service? Absolutely none.

    Today I was working in the city and went to the two big shops Alpine bikes and Edinburgh bikes I was looking for some bib shorts and a windstopper soft-shell either endura or gorebike wear result neither had the size or colour that i wanted but hey lets just buy something because they are local.
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,217
    Your experience so far with those shops is a good reason why you should learn to do your own bike maintenance, servicing and upgrading. It can be very satisfying working on your bike.

    You will save yourself a lot of time and money and will have the satisfaction of knowing you have added to your skills. Swopping your wheels is straight forward as is changing your brake calipers. Get a copy of an up to date bike maintenance book and have a look at GCN on youtube and the park tools website, manufactures online pdf data sheets show you how to fit and adjust component parts, ask for advice on BR.

    Build up a tool kit as you go with the money you save from purchasing your upgrades online, or if you prefer at a bike shop. Buy when there are offers on the products you want. Start with the smaller easier tasks and as you gain confidence tackle the bigger jobs. Take your time and don't rush things as that's when mistakes happen.

    Give it a go you may surprise yourself. :wink:
  • deimosjohnny
    deimosjohnny Posts: 135
    DiY seems to be the way to go, will get a copy of Zinns road bike maintenance.
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    My LBS is good if I need anything fitting that I don't have the tools or need doing right first time. They don't mind if I bring bits bought elsewhere and charge for time as required. Most things I do myself.
  • deimosjohnny
    deimosjohnny Posts: 135
    Kajjal wrote:
    My LBS is good if I need anything fitting that I don't have the tools or need doing right first time. They don't mind if I bring bits bought elsewhere and charge for time as required. Most things I do myself.

    That is exactly what I would have loved to have.
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    DiY seems to be the way to go, will get a copy of Zinns road bike maintenance.

    it saves you money and I actually enjoy it, some weekends I take my bikes apart and put them back together again just for fun :-) i may be weird though!!
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • rodgers73
    rodgers73 Posts: 2,626
    Problem with LBSs is that they have no higher management structure enforcing customer service standards, neither is there anyone to complain to other than the owner.

    Watch Hotel Inspector on C5 if you want to see how that model works out in practice when a tw*t runs a business!
  • Serious Cat
    Serious Cat Posts: 489
    Chris Bass wrote:
    DiY seems to be the way to go, will get a copy of Zinns road bike maintenance.

    it saves you money and I actually enjoy it, some weekends I take my bikes apart and put them back together again just for fun :-) i may be weird though!!



    I can understand this as I am waiting for lithium grease to arrive from wiggle and Icant wait to be greasing all those bits and Bob's and putting everything together :oops:
    This serious internet site..............I serious cat
  • Elfed
    Elfed Posts: 459
    You're far better off learning to do it yourself, it's a bike after all not the Saturn 5, there are loads of howto videos on YouTube about every upgrade/replacement.

    I was in my LBS two weeks ago buying some stuff and two guys came came in with their bikes wanting the gears sorting as they weren't changing properly, both agreed to have their bikes serviced. This has to be the simplest job ever to do on a bike.

    The only original part on my bike is the frame, I've upgraded everything myself without ever visiting an LBS, and did it all over a period of at least twelve months as funds allowed to buy the parts and tools required. Believe me, you get to know how the bike functions doing it like this and tweaking bits isn't so daunting, and best of all it feels great.

    If I was doing it all again I'd either buy a frame and components and build from scratch, or spend more and get a higher spec bike as it's way cheaper in the end.
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Kajjal wrote:
    My LBS is good if I need anything fitting that I don't have the tools or need doing right first time. They don't mind if I bring bits bought elsewhere and charge for time as required. Most things I do myself.

    That is exactly what I would have loved to have.

    Yes I am lucky to have it.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667

    What bike? he asks I explain Mekk, I had barely finished saying then he says you have to ask yourself is it worth the upgrades. Sorry I ask, he says another cheap Taiwan bike not worth the effort, ok he says maybe you could do the wheels.

    Why do you think he was "slagging off your investment" rather than offering useful advice?

    I would have thought a better 'investment' would be to have gotten the group set you wanted rather than plan on buying/paying to have it swapped over later.


    How many people that say they are going to buy a whole new group set for their first road bike actually do it? Not a big percentage I would wager.

    I think he gave you good advice, but maybe not best worded. Maybe the carrot you dangled annoyed him.

    Upgrade the wheels, tyres and brake pads and enjoy the bike :wink:
  • gozzy
    gozzy Posts: 640

    This was after an email asking if i supplied the parts what would be their costs for fitting and servicing listed the everything, to get a response you need to come in store technicians don't answer emails.

    I imagine that was probably quite a good way to irritate the shop guy; "Here's some parts I bought cheaper than you sell them for. How much to fit them?"

    Anyway, as others have said, diy is the way to go, especially if you're 30 miles from the shop. In the time you spend dropping the bike off and picking it up again, every time you need something doing, you could do that work yourself. Spend the money on tools instead, read Zinn & Sheldon and look at parktools and you're away.
    Servicing a bike isn't difficult. All the "tightening up after buying/first service" involves is a few nips with an allen key and a couple of twists of the barrel adjusters and your off.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    edited May 2014
    Also which bit of 'cheap Taiwanese bike' do you not agree with?
    Its a bike, if it was made in Taiwan it was made in Taiwan, and it must have been cheap for you to buy it from wiggle instead of his or someone else's shop.

    How soon do you plan on swapping the groupset?
    Guessing your plan was to buy the parts cheaper online and get him to fit them?
    Not much of a carrot even if he does get it in a couple of years :roll:

    He was telling you not to do it anyway, so either he was willing to forgo the carrot just to take the pi55 out of you or the advice was genuine.
  • dilatory
    dilatory Posts: 565
    Carbonator wrote:
    Also which bit of 'cheap Taiwanese bike' do you not agree with?
    Its a bike, if it was made in Taiwan it was made in Taiwan, and it must have been cheap for you to buy it from wiggle instead of his or someone else's shop.

    How soon do you plan on swapping the groupset?
    Guessing your plan was to buy the parts cheaper online and get him to fit them?
    Not much of a carrot even if he does get it in a couple of years :roll:

    This seems moronic. If he charges sensible prices for the mechanics time then what does it matter where the bike and parts came from? If he only services bikes sold from his shop, advertise as such. If not, price as such and schedule accordingly. Why support a bike shop that doesn't want to be supported?
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I don't see what the bike shop have done wrong.
    Saying not to plan to take a perfectly good Sora drive train/shifters off and replace with Ultegra on a cheap bike sounds like good advice to me.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Carbonator wrote:
    I don't see what the bike shop have done wrong.
    Saying not to plan to take a perfectly good Sora drive train/shifters off and replace with Ultegra on a cheap bike sounds like good advice to me.
    There are ways of saying it though.

    I will be upgrading the groupset on my entry level bike. It's a good frame and its done a fair few miles now. My LBS owner was telling me the cheapest way to do it too. But then I will be doing it myself.
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    I remember a similar post to this and someone said it is a bit like taking the ingredients for a meal to a restaurant and asking how much they would charge to cook it for you.#

    I think for the LBS's point of view, I would imagine they make most of the money from selling the parts, once you take into account the cost of paying the mechanic and any other overheads they have they would have to charge a lot to do just the maintenance to make it worth their while.
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • dilatory
    dilatory Posts: 565
    Chris Bass wrote:
    I remember a similar post to this and someone said it is a bit like taking the ingredients for a meal to a restaurant and asking how much they would charge to cook it for you.

    That's an awful analogy.

    If the bike shop only exists to sell bikes and then service the bikes they sell it's fine - tell people that, be explicit. No-one takes their bikes to Halfords for a service unless they bought it there, seems to work for them. If they offer wrench services to outside customers then being snobby about which bikes you service opens you up to this sort of criticism.

    Also, advising a customer that they might be polishing a turd politely is one thing, telling them you wont work on their brand because "it's made in Taiwan" is silly. If they don't work on frames made in Asian countries they probably have a very small pool of customers, unless there are swathes of people buying hand-built bikes that don't know how to index their gears.
    Chris Bass wrote:
    I think for the LBS's point of view, I would imagine they make most of the money from selling the parts, once you take into account the cost of paying the mechanic and any other overheads they have they would have to charge a lot to do just the maintenance to make it worth their while.

    But that's the point. Charge what it's worth to do it or don't offer it as a service. Tell the customer if they buy parts from you then fitting is cheaper. Buy elsewhere and it costs this much. Customers choice. Don't be a dick about it. Maybe if you do it this once next time they'll take their business to you, maybe you wont see them again. Either way if you do the work you are paid what it's worth, and if it's too expensive for them no loss. It seems pretty basic to me.
  • Elfed
    Elfed Posts: 459
    Maybe he was was just trying to give you good advise but lacked the skills to put it across diplomatically?

    People are usually nice and if they're not you've caught them at the wrong time or don't know them well enough.

    Compare it to a situation you'd face at work, do you take the money and give the customer what he wants, or do you do the right thing and give honest advice and give him what he needs?
  • I can understand the OP's frustration but also see where the LBS's are coming from, although do agree they could have said it in a nicer way.

    I've always liked Felt bikes since I first saw one on a group ride in Glasgow. I spent months looking at them on wiggle and settled on the F75 as it was in my price range. I looked on felt's website to find a local dealer and the nearest was about 80 miles away, in an area I passed nearby now and again with work. I made the effort to go there but despite the website showing the bike I fancied, it was out of stock. It seemed like a great wee shop but it had been a bit of a wasted journey.

    Then at Xmas time the 2013 f6 appears on wiggle with a huge % off before the 2014 model arrives, great, I'm now looking at a carbon version for the same price as I planned to spend on the alu f75.

    Should I feel bad for not using a LBS?

    Ironic thing is there's a LBS only 10 minutes from me who stock felts but don't feature as a stockist on felt's website. Only found out after my purchase.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I think the restaurant analogy is pretty good.
    The restaurant could equally charge a 'fair' price to do the skilled bit (or donkey work depending on your point of view).
    I would be more than a little worried that they would spit in my food as they served it with a mile though because, as with taking your parts to a bike shop, its taking the pi55 to some degree.

    At least with a restaurant your ingredients will be different to theirs rather than cheaper, so in some ways its less of a pi55 take.

    I think you either buy at home and fit at home, or have the balls to ask the bike shop to do a deal on the parts (price match) first before just buying the exact same (or maybe grey imported) parts for them to fit at minimum profit.

    Quite right they could just charge more to fit them but I don't think thats the point.

    This shop is getting grief for being happy to fit the OP's parts and giving what I would call sound advice.
    Reading between the lines I think the OP (sorry if I am wrong OP) is annoyed that the shop would not waste their time getting involved in email communications and did not praise his choice of bike.
    Would not be surprised if the shop guys 'rudeness' was a little embellished because of this and am glad the OP stopped short of 'naming and shaming'!

    Sounds like the OP and some of you guys want a little too much from an LBS (at the same time as snubbing them), and to add eloquence to the list is silly.
  • crispybug2
    crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    Rule 58!
  • MountainMonster
    MountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    I will say this:

    One of my buddies works/co-owns a bike shop in Austria, and he and his co-owner absolutely hate it when people come in asking for advice and fitting of parts on bikes and say they have gotten them online, or are looking to buy online.

    Much the same as I would not go into a small HiFi shop that is independently owned and say the same. I have a sneaky suspicion most people would be a bit miffed if someone came into their work and said they are buying the things cheaper but want the person to fix them.
  • Quins
    Quins Posts: 239
    I was daunted by bike shops when I started cycling in middle age. I have 3 sporty kids that cost me a packet and couldn't justify spending £500 plus . I looked around Evans, found I couldn't even afford an entry level bike. Sat on one of their own brands , a Pinnacle 1.0. About 3 months later I found a pinnacle on line, my size, £236 delivered. I bought it, me and a mate set it up and I did some rides on my own.

    Eventually brave enough to turn up for a couple of rides with the club in a group appropriate for my level. Hooked. Then after I while I needed pedals, shoes and some kit. I couldn't avoid going to my LBS. For me it was a really daunting experience. But I just chatted to the guys, told them what I was doing, how much I loved it, how inexperienced I was ( not that they needed telling) and that I was relying in them to help me. Basically I formed a relationship with them over a few weeks.
    I've since bought my dream bike ( another budget issue) not from them, because they couldn't get the model I wanted, so I found the last one in the country in my size at another bike shop on line.
    My LBS set the bike for me, rightly charged me for it. I have a a great relationship with the 3 lads there and their boss who runs the shop. On days off I nip up with a bag of doughnuts , have a coffee and and a natter. That relationship has been built up. I couldn't have done it by email , but I only had to travel about 7 miles each way. I now some some tools that I can do some basics with, and a cheap supermarket stand that does the job.

    I will always look for a bargain on line, but also maintain my relationship with the LBS for accessories, gels, kit etc. I also get my bike serviced there and they make me do some of the work!

    The OP has my sympathy. It might be better to phone an LBS to have a chat, see if you can get the relationship started before turning up. I hope you get some satisfaction with it.